Confusion over wetsuit thickness and layering

[scubagrrl]

Hiya! Can any of you cold-water divers out there explain something to me? What is the difference between wearing a 7 mm fullsuit (one piece) and a 7mm two-piece farmer john? (I'm pretty sure that my farmer john is 1/4". . . .is that 7mm?) My question involves the layering with the two-piece. What I want to understand is whether, typically, both parts of the farmer john are the same thickness as the fullsuit, so that when you wear both pieces, it's actually like wearing 14 mm of wetsuit over your core? Or are the pieces thinner, so that when layered they equal 7mm? I am considering switching to a one-piece suit (because it takes me 20 minutes to put on my current suit, and once I get it on I can barely breathe!) . . . but am wondering if I'll be colder. If wearing the fullsuit is equivalent to sacrificing one layer, should I also consider wearing a core-warmer? BTW, I've been cold lately at temperatures less than about 53 degrees F. Thanks in advance . . . I know you guys have some great answers (to everything, apparently! I'm so grateful for the existence of this board!). :10:

 

[The Kraken]

OK, a lot of questions there and I'm having a hard time trying to formulate an answer, but:

Sometimes it depends upon the manufacturer if the farmer john and jacket are the same thickness.

But, given that they are the same thickness, if you were wearing a 7mm farmer john/jacket, you would have 14mm of neoprene covering your torso.

1/4 inch is generally associated with a 6.5mm thickness (iffin ya want to split hairs, it comes out to 6.34 millimeters).

I've dived my 6.5 Harvey's fj/j and actually still had dry spots in the torso area after the dive.

the K

 

[Woden]

What I want to understand is whether, typically, both parts of the farmer john are the same thickness as the fullsuit, so that when you wear both pieces, it's actually like wearing 14 mm of wetsuit over your core? Or are the pieces thinner, so that when layered they equal 7mm? ..............
.........If wearing the fullsuit is equivalent to sacrificing one layer, should I also consider wearing a core-warmer? BTW, I've been cold lately at temperatures less than about 53 degrees F. Thanks in advance . . . I know you guys have some great answers (to everything, apparently! I'm so grateful for the existence of this board!). :10:

First answer is correct....You have 14mm at your core and 7mm at your extremities.
If you go to a fullsuit it will be colder. If you do go with a full suit, consider a hooded vest to make up for the lost protection.

Of course you could always dive dry. A cheap dry suit (like a Bare NextGen) isn't much more expensive than some wet suits I've seen.

Stay toasty :flame:

 

[scubagrrl]

Hmmm . .. and I guess they don't make any 14 mm suits, huh? Thanks for the answers, you guys!! <brrrrrrr....>

 

[MookieMoose]

Hiya! Can any of you cold-water divers out there explain something to me? What is the difference between wearing a 7 mm fullsuit (one piece) and a 7mm two-piece farmer john? (I'm pretty sure that my farmer john is 1/4". . . .is that 7mm?) My question involves the layering with the two-piece. What I want to understand is whether, typically, both parts of the farmer john are the same thickness as the fullsuit, so that when you wear both pieces, it's actually like wearing 14 mm of wetsuit over your core? Or are the pieces thinner, so that when layered they equal 7mm? I am considering switching to a one-piece suit (because it takes me 20 minutes to put on my current suit, and once I get it on I can barely breathe!) . . . but am wondering if I'll be colder. If wearing the fullsuit is equivalent to sacrificing one layer, should I also consider wearing a core-warmer? BTW, I've been cold lately at temperatures less than about 53 degrees F. Thanks in advance . . . I know you guys have some great answers (to everything, apparently! I'm so grateful for the existence of this board!). :10:

Typically with a two-piece, both parts are the same thickness, in this case 7mm, so together you would have 14mm of neoprene over your core. With a one-piece you will be sacrificing thickness, but usually there are fewer openings, and places for water to enter the suit with a one piece. A properly-fitting one-piece can often keep you warmer, even though there is less neoprene over your core.

If having the extra neoprene over your core is important to you, there are suits that are built as a onre-piece with a step-in core warmer that you may like. One example is at the link below:

This is the full suit:

http://www.bare-wetsuits.com/bareshop/diveproduct.asp?dept_id=23010&pf_id=64425

And this is the core warmer with attached hood:

http://www.bare-wetsuits.com/bareshop/diveproduct.asp?dept_id=23010&pf_id=64427

Hope this helps.

Cam

 

[scubagrrl]

Cam--this was the exact advice I was looking for, and I think you've nailed it. I think that this is the perfect solution for me . . . and I think it will be a lot easier to put on . . . . geez, I'm sick of my current suit! Many thanks!

 

[MookieMoose]

Cam--this was the exact advice I was looking for, and I think you've nailed it. I think that this is the perfect solution for me . . . and I think it will be a lot easier to put on . . . . geez, I'm sick of my current suit! Many thanks!

No Problem. The dive shop I used to deal with back home has this suit on sale right now - $299 Canadian for both the full suit and the vest. Check it out at:

http://www.dansdiveshop.ca/

Look under 'Specials' on the right, the suit is near the bottom of the second page. If you want to talk to them there is a toll-free number on the 'contact us' page.

Happy Hunting...

Cam

 

[scubagrrl]

Wow! What an awesome deal. Wish they had my size! Thanks again for pointing me in this direction, though. I do think that this style suit is for me. Cheers!

 

[Wristshot]

Since others answered your questions about thickness . . .

I am considering switching to a one-piece suit (because it takes me 20 minutes to put on my current suit, and once I get it on I can barely breathe!) . . .

If it is taking you 20 minutes to put on yor current wetsuit, there may be some other issues going on. If you can barely breathe, then perhaps your current suit is not the right size, and that would certainly make it harder to put it on.

My buddy uses a Henderson Gold Core and swears that it just slides on real easy. I have a 2 piece custom wetsuit, and it doesn't exactly slide on easily, but it does the job. I wear a pair of scuba socks, and they make it a LOT easier to get the bottom on as they just slide easily. Just a thought.

Be really careful about buying a one-piece and a core warmer for layering. Make sure that you always plan to use both together, and that you size them appropriately. If you buy a suit that fits, then try to add a core warmer under it, you will be back to difficult donning, and tight fit. If you buy a wetsuit large enough to fit comfortably over the warmer, then it will be loose if you ever try to use it without the warmer. I assume that a core warmer is designed to allow a wetsuit to slide over it, so binding shouldn't be a problem.

If you are buying separate pieces, also consider buying them with zippers that do not coincide. That should keep the flow of water down. If the core warmer does not have a zipper, then this is not an issue. Then I would suggest considering a front zipper. A front zipper will allow you to open it slightly if you get too warm, and are generally easier to operate than back zippers.

Your comfort, safety and convenience are the most important things.


Wristshot

 

[spectrum]

I have those 2 BARE items in the mens versions and not he SGS - just plain Arctic . I'm planning to go to dry when this proves inadequate. The SGS has a slick inner surface that will cling and seal to your skin cutting down water movement a lot, it is the better suit. The basic suit also has wrist and calf seals and together make a nice set-up. I prefer this over a Jane/jacket since the full suit provides a snigle membrane over your body then the vest adds to that.

For dives in the 60'/upper 50ss I use this vest under the fullsuit....http://www.bare-wetsuits.com/bareshop/diveproduct.asp?dept_id=28520&pf_id=64437
It adds almost no bouyancy

Layering rules and you can mix and match. I even have a 5/4 Velocity that I use with either vest in the right conditions.

I will add that donning the suit should be pretty effortless and not take that long. The fit should be close all over with a hint of compression. Your breathing should be un-restricted and you should have full range of motion with your arms and bending.

Get your feet in and position the knees perfectly (critcal IMO) and roll up from there. On those Bare suits the wrist seals will "grab" a little due to the smooth rubber surface,a little suit snot can ease donning but should not be nesscesary.

From what Wrstshot said about front zip on the vest let me add....
That Bare step-in vest has the thigh/chin diagonal zipper and when you get out of the water it's nice to be able to unzip from your chin to lower neck at any time and flip the good back.

Pete

Typically with a two-piece, both parts are the same thickness, in this case 7mm, so together you would have 14mm of neoprene over your core. With a one-piece you will be sacrificing thickness, but usually there are fewer openings, and places for water to enter the suit with a one piece. A properly-fitting one-piece can often keep you warmer, even though there is less neoprene over your core.

If having the extra neoprene over your core is important to you, there are suits that are built as a onre-piece with a step-in core warmer that you may like. One example is at the link below:

This is the full suit:

http://www.bare-wetsuits.com/bareshop/diveproduct.asp?dept_id=23010&pf_id=64425

And this is the core warmer with attached hood:

http://www.bare-wetsuits.com/bareshop/diveproduct.asp?dept_id=23010&pf_id=64427

Hope this helps.

Cam