Converting CMAS to PADI

[Jim Lapenta]

Find an instructor that is willing to assess her and determine her level of skill and knowledge now. Doesn't matter what agency. Some have more leeway in crossing over divers from other agencies and are able to use their discretion. Depending on her skill and knowledge level, number of dives, and conditions experienced I'd take her on for my AOW if she met the skill requirements. If you found an SEI instructor that also has his CMAS rating he or she would know what to do with her certs.
Our system is set up this way:
DIVER
CMAS SEI Diving
1 Star Diver = Open Water Diver (age 15+) the difference here is there is no restriction that an SEI OW diver need dive under supervision of a higher level diver.
2 Star Diver = Advanced level diver 2 (age 15+ w/ 20 logged dives)
3 Star Diver = Advanced level diver 3 (age 16+ w/ 50 logged dives)
4 Star Diver = Master Diver + DRAM Rescue Diver + 100 logged dives
INSTRUCTOR
CMAS SEI Diving
1 Star Instructor Divemaster (age 18+ w/40 logged dives)
2 Star Instructor Instructor (age 19+ w/ 100 logged dives)
3 Star Instructor Instructor Trainer (age 21+ w/ 200 logged dives)

 

[tridacna]

I have to say that is very "wishy-washy".

She has to find an instructor that is willing to assess her skills and level of knowledge? Purely subjectively? Any objective standards? How is this done?

...And I presume at some cost to her. All so that she can take a PADI or SSI Nitrox course? I understand that standards differ across agencies but this seems very cloudy.

I assume that like any Open Water diver, she could go to a shop, get an air tank filled and go diving. Or go to a resort and dive with a buddy.

But without this "assessment", she is limited only to CMAS progression? This whole process seems to lack any set of interoperability standards between agencies. If an BSAC OW diver wants to take a PADI EANx course, do they have to have an assessment too?

 

[Omisson]

I have to say that is very "wishy-washy".

She has to find an instructor that is willing to assess her skills and level of knowledge? Purely subjectively? Any objective standards? How is this done?

...And I presume at some cost to her. All so that she can take a PADI or SSI Nitrox course? I understand that standards differ across agencies but this seems very cloudy.

I assume that like any Open Water diver, she could go to a shop, get an air tank filled and go diving. Or go to a resort and dive with a buddy.

But without this "assessment", she is limited only to CMAS progression? This whole process seems to lack any set of interoperability standards between agencies. If an BSAC OW diver wants to take a PADI EANx course, do they have to have an assessment too?

Jim is right- when crossing over between agencies if there is a question of comparability an evaluation is a key tool.

It's not wishy-washy it's common sense and an instructors obligation to ensure safety. The standards would be the demonstration of diver comfort and competence at the level immediately below the class being taught. It will vary from course to course.

EANx is a non dive specialty (in PADI anyway) requiring only that the diver be OW - there is no assessment other than the proof of certification and the course requirements.

 

[chrisch]

....This whole process seems to lack any set of interoperability standards between agencies. If an BSAC OW diver wants to take a PADI EANx course, do they have to have an assessment too?

The interoperability might be good from the diver viewpoint, but if you run an agency that makes money from training why should you co-operate in that way? The engine from your Ford will not fit in an Oldsmobile.

The FFESSM & PADI (to the best of my knowledge) have an agreed "passerelle" system shown here: http://www.taucher.net/download/TABLEAU_RECAPUTILATIF_DES_PASSERELLES_E.pdf

Such reciprocity is much easier in France than the US where few people I would guess are familiar with FFESSM.

I would guess an assesment and a PADI AOW is going to be the most cost-effective and will give a logical step to Rescue Diver. The cross back to the hallowed "Niveau Trois" is easier than the FFESSM route too!

 

[knotical]

… I assume that like any Open Water diver, she could go to a shop, get an air tank filled and go diving. Or go to a resort and dive with a buddy. …

Perhaps, but

It's not completely clear to me (and my poor French coupled with Google-Translate's uncertainties) just what the equivalency is from FFESSM Level 1.
< Try this page if your French is better than mine: http://www.ffessm.fr/gestionenligne/manuel/04_Plongeur_niveau_1.pdf >

"Guide de Palanquée" appears to be FFESSM's Dive Leader - Level 4 ( http://www.ffessm.fr/pagectn.asp?pa...reuve%20Guide%20de%20Palanqu%E9e%20Niveau%204 ), so apparently FFESSM Level 1 is the equivalent of PADI's Scuba Diver - i.e. not authorized to dive unsupervised.

So your best bet might be to ask the question at any scuba school since they will be the ones deciding, but it's likely she needs to take OW.

 

[tridacna]

Boy, am I glad that this is not confusing. :confused4:

Thread started with "just take AOW" and has now reached the "she needs to redo Open Water" level.

 

[knotical]

After looking at these two pages:

Submerged endurance at 20 m and 40 m guided Diver Certificate Level 2 (N2)

Guided dive to 20 m Diver Patent Level 1 (N1)

it’s pretty clear that FFESSM Level 1 is not OW equivalent because they have not had training in tables or computers.

---------- Post added November 23rd, 2014 at 07:28 AM ----------

... Thread started with "just take AOW" and has now reached the "she needs to redo Open Water" level.

Because you changed it from CMAS 1-star to FFESSM Level 1.

 

[tursiops]

After looking at these two pages:

Submerged endurance at 20 m and 40 m guided Diver Certificate Level 2 (N2)

Guided dive to 20 m Diver Patent Level 1 (N1)

it&#8217;s pretty clear that FFESSM Level 1 is not OW equivalent because they have not had training in tables or computers.

---------- Post added November 23rd, 2014 at 07:28 AM ----------


Because you changed it from CMAS 1-star to FFESSM Level 1.

And, apparently, FFESSM Level 1 needs to dive with a professional >> PADI Scuba Diver is the equivalence.
If this person came to me and asked to do AOW or Nitrox, I would tell them they need to do OW first. Sorry.

 

[Edward3c]

I have to say that is very "wishy-washy".

She has to find an instructor that is willing to assess her skills and level of knowledge? Purely subjectively? Any objective standards? How is this done?

...And I presume at some cost to her. All so that she can take a PADI or SSI Nitrox course? I understand that standards differ across agencies but this seems very cloudy.

I assume that like any Open Water diver, she could go to a shop, get an air tank filled and go diving. Or go to a resort and dive with a buddy.

But without this "assessment", she is limited only to CMAS progression? This whole process seems to lack any set of interoperability standards between agencies. If an BSAC OW diver wants to take a PADI EANx course, do they have to have an assessment too?

To prevent individuals from moving up the grades by changing agencies (it used to happen) certifications are awarded by undertaking a course. What muddies the waters is some offer 'equivalence' cards

Of note: BSAC is not affiliated to CMAS. BSAC Diver grades are covered by ISO.


A BSAC Ocean Diver (Ocean Diver ISO 24801-2 - 'Autonomous Diver') is qualified to use Nitrox:

An Ocean Diver is defined as a diver who is competent to conduct dives:
&#9679; with another Ocean Diver or with a Sports Diver, within the restrictions of the conditions already encountered during their training
&#9679; with a Dive Leader or higher grade, to expand their experience beyond the conditions encountered during their training, under the supervision of a Dive Manager.
&#9679; to a depth which is initially limited to the maximum experienced during training, but which can subsequently be extended progressively, under the supervision of a Nationally Qualified Instructor (NQI), to a maximum of 20m
&#9679; using breathing gas mixes of 21%, 32% or 36% O 2.
&#9679; not requiring mandatory decompression stops
&#9679; under the on-site supervision of a Dive Manager with respect to site selection, conditions and dive plan
&#9679; where other divers, capable of providing assistance and rescue, are available at the surface
&#9679; within BSAC safe diving recommendations

My highlights.

Kind regards

 

[Akimbo]

Edward3c:

using breathing gas mixes of 21%, 32% or 36% O2.

Why do they limit it to those two specific mixes (plus air)? I would think that any mix between 21 and 40% would be allowed.