Did mask removal feel like a punch for anyone else?

[Thanshin]

I understand that at a certain point in training an unexpected mask knock off might be an important exercise (in controlled conditions) but before that happens, the student should do several remove and replace exercises.

Well, it was PADI OW and we did do a lot of mask replacements before that (I'm not sure if the full equipment remove/put on was before or after that).

However, and I understand I have no experience to judge that, I still think I got a fantastic instructor and I'm happy of having done that exercise in a swimming pool where I could just jump up and breathe, before having it happen in salt water.

I even remember the last time it happened to me in a real dive, it was in the Coz invasion, during a passing through a coral arch. An absolutely horrible moment to have it happen for the first time in my short diving life.

So, while I understand it may not be part of the OW exercises, I think it should. It's the easiest and less dangerous way I can think of of giving a student a weak glimpse of what is diving stress/panic.

 

[iztok]

Well since it was PADI instructor I can tell you that he didn't stick to the approved curriculum. Removing equipment, swimming up and then back is just not part of it and it is dangerous. Should something happen to you someone would be up the creek without the paddle.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hmm. Yes. It was one of the swimming pool exercises:
- Take off everything (but the wetsuit). Leave it on the bottom. Go back to surface and then go down and recover/put on equipment.
- Take of mask. Put it againg. Clear.
- Share air with buddy while swimming horizontally (there was no depth to do it vertically).
- Take belt off and on again.

And some more I don't remember, other than all the "out of the pool" equipment management and tests. Getting your mask removed was just one more.

There were also some basic swimming tests with no equipment too, iirc.

Didn't know that.

Why? It seemed (and still seems) like a perfectly reasonable training. How else can you prepare for getting fin-kicked maskless during a dive? (and in my tiny experience I've had that done to me more than twice).

Most recreational agencies prohibit instructors from removing a student's mask without prior notice ... it's a violation of standards.

But even if your instructor is allowed to do this, there's something missing ... perhaps because you didn't mention it or else because the instructor skipped it. That would be having you remove and replace your mask voluntarily a few times prior to an "unannounced" removal. This is an important step ... first because it helps you overcome the instinct you mentioned, and also because it helps you develop a "technique" for recovering and replacing your mask.

A lot of new divers struggle with the mask removal exercise, for a number of reasons. Some, because of a strong "mammalian reflex" that has them believing their regulator is leaking as soon as they feel water on their nostrils. The instinct to bolt to the surface is strong in these people, and needs to be managed carefully. Others struggle because they have a hard time getting the mask on their face and getting it to seal properly ... usually because they have hair that is interfering with the process. This also needs to be managed, and sometimes that takes some changes to how they're wearing their hair. Still others ... if they're using a hood ... have to learn how to get the mask skirt back under the hood once it's in place. Students who struggle with the sealing and clearing process need time and practice to learn how to manage it. A successful mask clear that results in a continually leaking mask is no success at all.

Then there are different approaches to mask replacement that work better for some people. I have students who are more comfortable pushing the mask in place, clearing it, and then fixing the skirt and mask strap. I have students who are more comfortable fixing the skirt and strap first and then clearing the mask. There really is no "standardized" method that works best for everyone, and you need to try it both ways to find out which one works best for you.

What I do with my students is start them out removing their mask, retaining possession of it, and replacing it. Once that's done comfortably, then I ask them to take it off and hand it to me. I'll let them take a few breaths, then place it back in their hand. After they're comfortable with that, depending on the student, I may ask them to remove their mask, place it on the bottom of the pool, and then find and replace it.

At no time will I remove a student's mask ... that would violate my agency's standards ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[marco58]

When I did my confined water skills, our instructor had us remove and then breathe for a few minutes without our mask , then replace and clear our masks. We had one student who did have a hard time with the mask removal, but after a few tries did the task without a problem. I had an experience in a later dive when my dive buddy got a little too close to me and his fin dislodged ( not removed but totally flooded) my mask. I also felt a little ticked off, but remembered my training and cleared it and continued. I would not think having your instructor pull your mask off would be a good way to demonstrate what happens when you get fin kicked. Better to practice removing your mask and gain confidance then when it happens you won't panic. Or get angry.

 

[AevnsGrandpa]

Interesting. Being a PADI person I also removed my own mask and even then the feeling was like a slap, however my initial reaction was to panic and go to the surface not to punch someone. I wonder if there is an underlying issue there that would make someone want to lash out in anger when something unexpected happens to them.....

 

[TSandM]

The first time somebody hit me in the head in martial arts, I wanted to go hide behind the seats and cry . . . I never got over that feeling, which is one of the reasons I stopped doing martial arts.

Everybody is right that it is a violation of standards for the instructor to remove the student's mask. That's true even in GUE, which will put students through more stressful training than most mainstream agencies. Surprisingly, I find it MUCH easier on me to have the instructor yank my mask, than to have him ask ME to do it. In the former situation, I have no time to get myself worked up about how cold it's going to be, and how I hate not being able to see. In the latter, even a few seconds suffices to psych myself out.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

I'm still not clear on what happened. In your first post, it sounded like the instructor grabbed your mask and removed it:

Reading a Near Miss report I remembered the first time my instructor took away my mask (in a 2m deep pool, during OW).

Then in a later post it sounded like part of an exercise that you were doing, and the description made it sound like you removed your mask (and gear):

Hmm. Yes. It was one of the swimming pool exercises:
- Take off everything (but the wetsuit). Leave it on the bottom. Go back to surface and then go down and recover/put on equipment.
- Take of mask. Put it againg. Clear.

Can you clarify? Did you remove your gear/mask? Or did the instructor take your mask off of your head?

Blue Sparkle

 

[Jax]

Well, it was PADI OW and we did do a lot of mask replacements before that
(I'm not sure if the full equipment remove/put on was before or after that).
However, and I understand I have no experience to judge that, I still think I got a fantastic instructor and I'm happy of having done that exercise in a swimming pool where I could just jump up and breathe, before having it happen in salt water.

I even remember the last time it happened to me in a real dive, it was in the Coz invasion, during a passing through a coral arch. An absolutely horrible moment to have it happen for the first time in my short diving life.

So, while I understand it may not be part of the OW exercises, I think it should. It's the easiest and less dangerous way I can think of of giving a student a weak glimpse of what is diving stress/panic.

How is everyone missing those lines?

Maybe the instructor is going beyond, but it sounds like the students did know it was coming and were under well-controlled circumstances.

 

[RonFrank]

Surprise mask removal may be a violation because of the screwed up legal system we must live with, but IMO it should not be. Sure, work up to the skill but if your going to loose a mask it will happen unexpectedly, and suddenly. I have not completely lost a mask, but have come close several times. Been kicked in the face more than once and hard, and had current rip it off more than once. These events were not predicated by a discussion on what was coming next.

Mask removal is a key skill and it is a shame that USA standards are so legally correct as when it really happens there is no warning, and people have died as a result of loosing their mask. This is one skill I suggest all divers practice often. I was diving with Walter (FL) from SB and the one thing he did at the end of the dive was mask removal. I thought that was interesting based on the amount he dives being an instructor from FL.

I am fairly positive that surprise mask removal is part of the UDI cave training my buddies do but I will have to ask.

 

[Thanshin]

I'm still not clear on what happened. In your first post, it sounded like the instructor grabbed your mask and removed it:

Yes. That was one of the exercises.

Then in a later post it sounded like part of an exercise that you were doing, and the description made it sound like you removed your mask (and gear):

Indeed. In the second post I described other exercises we did, for reference. One of them was the mask removal but by that time we had removed our own masks several times.

The single point I'm not sure about is whether we did the mask removal before or after the full equipment underwater on/off exercise.