DIR-F Report - Sault Ste. Marie CANADA

[MXGratefulDiver]

Oh ... and JeffG ...

Can you explain what is this "conspiracy theory" you keep tossing about? I'm talking about a business arrangement ... not anything to do with conspiracies.

Would you mind telling me what you're talking about? I'm unfamiliar with the term.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Big-t-2538]

NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...
There are, however, aspects to the presentation that I'd find a turnoff. That's not from reading the internet ... it comes from knowing a couple dozen of the program's graduates.

Can you please list what you think would be a turn-off....in my class I do not recall one time a specific line of gear being pushed....yes lines were mentioned, but so were ways around spending your money for Halcyon gear.

 

[detroit diver]

NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...
Where to start ...
............
Detroit Diver said ... "DIRF is not for people that want to get into technical diving alone. It's for all types of divers including fish watching, reef cruising recreational divers.

That's like saying that everyone would be better off driving a Porsche. While it's fundamentally true, not everyone needs to be that extravagant ... one has to weigh the costs against the benefits. Furthermore, not everyone would be either able or willing to learn from this teaching style.

I've coached and instructed several sports over the years ... hockey, skiing, sailing, and hopefully one day scuba. One thing I've learned from my experiences is that different people learn in different ways. Not everyone would benefit from the DIR-F approach simply because their learning style and their individual needs would differ from yours ... and DIR-F is a very regimented, one-size-fits-all approach to scuba diving. While the fundamentals of dive planning, preparation, and execution are invaluable to every diver, the "wholistic" approach really isn't. Not everyone needs or desires that kind of regimentation in their scuba activities ... nor will the average diver be disadvantaged by not having it. It's entirely possible to be a safe, effective, and fundamentally sound diver without a great deal of what's required by the DIR-F approach.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I have no clue where you came up with that Porche analogy. It doesn't fit.

The DIR program, starting with the Fundamentals class is for those people that wish to improve their diving skills and strive for perfection. Perfect trim, perfect bouyancy, perfect buddy skills, perfect communication, etc. Are we all there yet? Heck no. But we know what the end of the tunnel should look like. If you want to call quality dive skills and wanting to be the best- extravagent, well that says a lot. I'm looking to be the best diver that I can, and to me the Fundy class was one step in that direction. It's a stepping stone to better diving, and that's not extravagence to me.

You are correct about one thing-not everyone is williing or able to learn from this teaching style. This agency doesn't look for people to take their classes-divers who want to move to the next level look for GUE. And some just can't cut it. That's life. I've seen 1000+ dive trimix instructors walk out of this class because they couldn't do BASIC skills. I've also seen brand new divers (10 dives) walk out of this class with a knowledge that they have the tools to become a better diver from the start and have progressed since to be fine divers.

Bob, you're no different than all the others that railed against this program with "it's equipment sales", "it's boot camp", "it's too regimented" blah blah blah. And then they took the class. Now they're the ones you guys call "zealots"!! The best sales tool for the DIRF class is from those like you who pounded DIRF for all the wrong reasons and then wound up drinking the Kool-Aid themselves.

Get past the inflammatory words (like stroke) that some unfortunately use, and I honestly believe that you would not only like the class, but improve your dive skills as well.

 

[GlockDiver]

Ok, maybe I'm confused, or simply haven't had enough coffee this morning...

If DIR instructors do not let students in the water without the right equipment, and those requirements are stated well before the class, then why did the instructors have to spend any time telling these people their equipment was crap? Were all of the students ignorant of the prerequisites?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an anti-DIR troll. I've checked out the GUE.com website, and have found a lot of usefull stuff there.

 

[Big-t-2538]

GlockDiver once bubbled...
Ok, maybe I'm confused, or simply haven't had enough coffee this morning...

No...you just haven't had enough Irish Coffee.

Anyway, now that DIR-F is a cert class, I beleive in order to get the cert you have to do the skills shown in the class in the required gear.

I do not know for certain, but I believe that if you are just looking for good instruction and not interested in certification that you are more than welcome to take the class in your BCD. I just think you would just have to make arrangements with the instructor. Or you can do what I did and BORROW gear, or RENT gear....why do you need to buy it?

 

[detroit diver]

GlockDiver once bubbled...
Ok, maybe I'm confused, or simply haven't had enough coffee this morning...

If DIR instructors do not let students in the water without the right equipment, and those requirements are stated well before the class, then why did the instructors have to spend any time telling these people their equipment was crap? Were all of the students ignorant of the prerequiesets?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an anti-DIR troll. I've checked out the GUE.com website, and have found a lot of usefull stuff there.

Yes, you need more coffee!!

Some of the equipment is an absolute requirement. No split fins, long hose. I think the new regs require a backplate and wings also. This was not true before.

The first part of the class is where the instructor goes thru all of your eqiupment-even the stuff that's not an absolute requirement. For instance, they will look at the stretch points on your drysuit and drysuit underwear and show you where the stretch points need to be to be able to properly perfect certain skills. That's just one example. So the student will come into class with all the pre-requisites, but the instructor will fine tune and explain how they can change things to perform better.

 

[Big-t-2538]

yeah....

here are the new equipment requirements from the GUE site...

I cut some of the garbage verbage out...this is basically the jist, they go into a little detail about where the rings on the harness should be, etc....

however at the bottom of the requirements page it states
"Prior to the commencement of class, students should consult with a GUE representative to verify equipment requirements. " so this can be a class to calss thing, but I beleive most everyone would like their students to be in the "required" equipment.

-------requirements--------

Regulators: One of the second stages must be on a 5-foot to 7-foot/1.5-meter to 2-meter hose. One of the first stages must supply a pressure gauge and provide inflation for a dry suit (where applicable)

Back plate System: A rigid and flat platform, of metal construction with minimal padding, held to a diver by one continuous piece of nylon webbing. This webbing should be adjustable through the plate and should use a buckle to secure the system at the waist. A crotch strap attached to the lower end of this platform and looped through the waistband would prevent the system from riding up a diver’s back.

Buoyancy Compensation Device: A diver's buoyancy compensation device should be back-mounted and minimalist in nature. There should be no restrictive bands or "bungee" of any sort affixed to the buoyancy cell

At least one depth-measuring device

At least one timekeeping device

Mask and fins: Mask should be low volume; fins should rigid, non-split

At least one cutting device

Wet Notes

Exposure suit appropriate for the duration of exposure

 

[GlockDiver]

I wonder what percentage of students, with required gear, pass DIR-F on their first try. High? Low?

What are the common reasons for people to fail DIR-F?

 

[Big-t-2538]

Well, I had the borrowed required gear and passed on try 1.

I think the pass fail thing is really a proficency thing. Did my buddy get air?...did we remain neutral while sharing?...did we handle situation XYZ acceptably?...etc. It is a judegement call made by the instructor, but it is also readily evident what is crap and what isn;t crap when you see the video

For the most part, we (I thought anyway) did things passably on day 2....day 1 was a different story...would I have passed with the skills I showed day 1...no way in hell..

Were we perfect, no, but we also understand that we have to practice. The big key to nailing diving in general is practice...even in BOW, how many times did you have to clear your mask in class before you got to the check-out dives???? Practice Practice Practice. The goal of DIR-F is to ask questions and ask why. IF you don't come away from the class with a better understanding of why these guys do things the way they do, then you have missed the point of the class.

IT is all about diver education and trying to certify proficent divers. YEah, my sister has a driving license, but she also never goes more than 2 weeks without ramming something with the front or rear of the car.....are you getting my point?

 

[WJL]

GlockDiver once bubbled...
I wonder what percentage of students, with required gear, pass DIR-F on their first try. High? Low?

The class has only been "pass/fail" for about a month, so I doubt that there are any meaningful statistics available yet. My impression from talking to a couple of GUE Fundamentals instructors is that a substantial number of class participants have been given a "pass" but I want to emphasize that is just my impression. It is definitely not the intention or practice that nobody passes, even on the first try. Moreover, there is no intent to make anyone pay for another class to get the "pass". As SS noted above, many of the GUE Fundamentals instructors have told their students who didn't pass, that they will come back later to check out the non-passers after they have practiced and improved, and then go ahead and issue a "pass" if warranted.

Contrary to Bob's idea that this is all done for business motives, these instructors don't go through this follow-up process to make money. From a business perspective, it's crazy. They aren't doing it for the money, because there isn't any. Heck, the money for the course itself isn't that much, especially when there are multiple instructors, as there almost always are. As hard as it is for some to believe, the basic reason these folks do this is because they are passionate about diving, and they want to do their part to improve the skills of other divers.

What are the common reasons for people to fail DIR-F?

Pretty much the only reason is the inability to perform the basic skills while remaining reasonably neutral in the water. If you can do it you pass. If you can't, you don't.