Dive industry BS

[Genesis]

I'm suggesting that we all buy online and tell people we're doing so until the policies change.

If you think this is simply the manufacturers "shoving down" a policy you're simply wrong. It is, in the main, what the shops want.

Every time you buy from one you're agreeing with their expressed desires.

The proof of this assertion is simlpe - without them there would be no outlets for the gear locally at all, and if the shops banded together they could stop this in one day.

They have not, and that's all the proof I need that they're (at a minimum) complicit in what's going on.

 

[Ron Brandt]

James Goddard once bubbled...


As a general rule I'm against companies that do any sort of price fixing. However in the dive industry that leaves you with no choices for any sort of quality gear. I was just happy that since I have to deal with it in the dive industry that it actually worked to my advantage for a change.

James,your bio is absent of any industry affiliation.
What do you do ?

Ron

 

[HammerNoMore]

Genesis once bubbled...
I'm suggesting that we all buy online and tell people we're doing so until the policies change.

I buy where it is cheapest. Often that is online, other times it is from an LDS. Occationally, as in the case I mentioned I try to help out the LDS buy buying from them at retail for lower priced items, this particular LDS atempting to take advantage of me has lost him that favor.

Another LDS, (furthest away but it has now become the one where I will spend all local money) always gives me a good deal, often more competative than the internet. Personally I'd rather give my money to him than to LP whenever it is financially viable to do so.

James

 

[ScoobyDave]

Corrections are welcomed, but my belief is the local shops are indeed complicit with the manufacturer's policies. Heck, why not? It guarantees a higher margin on a given sale than if a true competitive situation existed where they were only realizing a 10% margin on a sale.

I would love to better support my local shops, and would be willing to pay a (small) premium for the convenience of local shopping and immediate possession of my purchases. If the local shops resent me for purchasing elsewhere, then I invite them to push back on their distributors so they can be more competitive (if they choose).

One question for the shop owners: Are the contractual obligations you have with distributors or manufacturers?

 

[ElectricZombie]

Genesis once bubbled...
I'm suggesting that we all buy online and tell people we're doing so until the policies change.

I agree completely.

The local dives shops are already trying to play hardball...

A friend and I bought about $900.00 each worth of gear from the Internet. The LDS here does not sell this brand or anything comprable. When the LDS (which I will not name) found out, they basically told me our business relationship was over and that if I needed something, they were going to charge some outrageous amount. They were very pissed that I recommend this brand over the crap they sell. They also refuse to work on gear that is purchased from the Internet. I guess they forgot that I've spent about $5K with them in the past... Needless to say, they will no longer get any of my money.

Local dive shops will no longer receive any support from me until they cut out this type of strongarm nonsense. I'm tempted to go buy a compressor and some mixing gear just out of spite.

 

[kingprawn]

Ok, I’ve had this conversation with others, but would like the input of LDS owners.

I view my LDS like my local garage. They are a service organization. Or should be. Let people buy all their gear from the net. We all need our gear serviced. Some of us may be capable of servicing our own gear. Most of us are not. The main function of the shop should be service and training. If they want to stock items that they can sell without dealing with the issues of manufactures, then they should. (Lets face it, you need to try on a mask.) The focus should be on servicing gear.

The problem is that the manufactures will not sell service kits to dealers that don’t sell their gear. This is the real issue. If I want to buy a set of valve seats and o-rings for my reg, I should be able to buy them (or the LDS should). But the manufactures will only sell to their equipment dealers. That’s what is killing the LDS. They can’t even be a service organization.

Don’t get me wrong. I buy my gear from the LDS if his price is reasonable. I’ll pay a few more % because I can hold it in my hands and ask questions. I’ll pay a bit more to keep the shop open, and pay salary, but I have a limit. If the shop can not compete with the internet price, the should settle for servicing the equipment. They are probably making more money on that anyway.


Flame away.

 

[diverbrian]

In general I agree with you (The only reason that I don't buy online is because I happen to like my LDS, if I had a poor one around I would feel differently.), but Zombie, you know as well as I do that dive shops are not allowed to service gear of brands that they don't sell. Their insurance will not cover it. You can't ask them to do it. We have a guy who bought gear on the internet only to find out that the nearest dive shop that sells it and can service it is about three or four hours away. His choice.

If you feel that they are selling garbage gear, you wouldn't be be buying much from them anyways at this point in time, would you? It doesn't sound to me like either one of you is losing much. You are obviously disappointed with their gear selection. They can't service what you bought.

Other than that, if you have an LDS that isn't doing the job (ie. providing what you need), do what you need to do. Instead of protesting, boycotting, etc., the cost of people buying elsewhere due to the shop not providing customer service (which is why you pay more at an LDS, I like have a clerk and selection in front of me where I can try things on, feel weights, pick things up for balance ......) will drive the poor ones out of business on their own. In other words, business will run its course with or without our conversations. We won't accelerate it or slow it down. Business runs in cycles. It is unfortunate that good people will suffer (there are good LDS owners out there too small to compete), but that is the way of life and we can't control it.

 

[Rick Murchison]

My experience with Dive-Rite has been nothing at all like what Ron and Genesis have described.
I've been dealing with Dive-Rite as a customer (through my local Dive Shop) for about six years now. I have a Transpac, manifold, bands, lift bag, hood, odd & ends and am lusting after a 905 drysuit. They have been responsive and quick to solve any little nit of a problem I've had. When I was contemplating a Transpac and the shop didn't have any in stock, they shipped one up for me to try out before buying.
I am quite happy with Dive-Rite and will continue to use them for any tech gear that I need and they carry.
Rick

 

[ElectricZombie]

diverbrian once bubbled...
but Zombie, you know as well as I do that dive shops are not allowed to service gear of brands that they don't sell.

Right. They DO sell this particular brand regulator and refuse to service it because it was purchased online. Not a big deal as I can do it myself, but the parts are hard to come by.

The gear that they don't sell was the wing I bought...since they don't sell this brand, it would be foolish for them to ever work on it if needed.

 

[scywin]

I'm not in the dive business the way many of you on this thread are, but I do understand the need to make a profit.

My LDS has prices that I can generally beat on the Internet, and he only carries what he carries. However, the service is great so whenever I want something that he stocks I buy it from the LDS. He generally gives a small discount to keep things competitive if not rock bottom.

Sometimes I want other brands of gear. I've had no problems with service. I chat with these folks a lot, but if they have another customer in the store I tell them to serve the other customer first. I don't want them losing a sale because I was just chatting.

From a customer viewpoint, price is a factor, but not the only factor. If they let me try something in their pool or spend time explaining a product, I am not going to buy it elsewhere. Service counts. As a customer, I want the guys that provide good service to be profitable and I will buy stuff from them even when I can find it elsewhere for less.