Dive ops: pimping vs legitimate info

[billindenver]

In life there are always those who choose to criticize others for doing anything that they themselves would not do. That is life and it exists on the internet just as it does in your workplace. If you are incapable of defending yourself on a screen at your own desk, then it is best not to post to a bunch of strangers about your experiences. With that said, those who choose to ride someone else for what they believe is or is not safe, had better have more knowledge in their head than was put there by some instructor fresh off his training...or they face criticism themselves. Remember, instructors pass on rules that are there in order to keep an inexperienced diver safe..it is EXPECTED that the experienced diver will learn more as they go and apply that knowledge themselves. Rules in these sports, be it diving, skydiving, flying, mountain climbing etc etc etc are there to keep the new guy safe....and then reconsidered when he/she has the knowledge to do so for themselves.

Those who take the beginners handbook as the word of god are welcome to do so, until they preach to someone else about their overwhelming knowledge...based entirely on a handbook handed them when they had never breathed from a tank before. At which point someone is bound to tell them to worry about their own safety and leave others alone. The rules are there to keep the least skilled safe...once one is capable of deciding his/her own skill level...he is also capable of accepting his own risk level and only a fool dares openly judge at that point.

All in my humble opinion of course

 

[firstdive2005]

I think you may have a glitch to discuss in Support. This is what I see. Screen shot of his post...

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Any "flaming" should be reported. That's why the Report button exists, but exceeding safe diving practices invites criticism. If you don't want to disucss it, don't mention it.

I'm sorry, what was the subject again...?

THE SUBJECT WAS 'HOW TO TURN SCUBABOARD INTO A CLINICAL ANALYSIS FORUM INSTEAD OF A PLACE TO HAVE FUN. IMO.

Again Don maybe some people have not done advanced deco procedures and are making comments from what they know. And that is ok if it is put out in the form of a question that warrants explanation. As in the scuba discussion forum where we learn there, no stupid questions.
Now I'm going diving. Have a nice day all. kev

 

[ggunn]

On the whole, ScubaBoard is a very friendly place. For the most part, folks are considerate of others' feelings and respectful toward people with whom they disagree; I have only been motivated to invoke the ignore feature a few times. Anyone who is too timid to participate in ScubaBoard should take a look around Usenet (anyone remember that guy ReefFish in rec.scuba?), if it still exists, to see what flaming actually means.

 

[Christi]

I think MMM's intention here (correct me if I'm wrong Marg) was not to dictate what people can and cannot or should and should not post - but rather to point out that reviews of dive shops (or any other service/activity on the island) are much more useful and credible if there's some "meat" to the review. So talk about how great your favorite op is, but also provide WHY that op is great for you and what it is that you like about the op rather than simply saying they are "the best." It's OK if everyone has different favorites - everyone has pros and cons!

With that said, yes - I totally agree that there are definitely a few that could refrain from picking apart people's posts and being so analytical about what other people choose to post - regardless of the topic. This is supposed to be fun!

Have a great Friday everyone and have a great day of diving Kevin and those of you who are on the island!!

 

[driftin' by]

I had originally wanted to include in that sticky way back when it was posted - but I was limited by "max characters." In fact, that sticky needs to be updated in more ways than one as far as local info in general goes.

First of all, I think that Sticky is the single most useful bit of information as it pertains to Coz and Christi you are to be commended for your effort: Thank You! Sorry for the cheer leading. Anyway, it does need to be updated and FWIW, a sticky can contain many posts exceeding any max character limitations. Separating it into separate posts would be a good way to categorize the information such as alcina has done with this UW Photography Sticky. Alcina is however an SB staff member allowing her to edit and mod posts as required. I think what we're missing in the Coz forum is someone with the authority to edit and post to a sticky.

What I had thought about the sticky was perhaps splitting Christi's general sticky into one that specifically deals with the question of "best dive op" (since it seems to appear regularly) and maybe expanding upon it.

The Texas Swamp Divers Forum contains a sticky the allows users to report local Texas dive site conditions. There is a suggested template of information that is suggested when giving a report of the conditions in a effort to keep each post/review short and sweet. Perhaps something similar is in order here on the Coz forum to rate and concisely review dive ops without a lot of hoopla?

I'll make it planer Don. I was sitting at the La Hach with quite a few people tonight. Most view the board. Several people commented why the dont post. Several made comments about the 'click on the Cozumel forum' and the fear of posting from their remarks and slams.

As a regular here, I take offense to that... but it's true and if someone takes any of this personally, they may have other issues.

Sounds like a case of thin-skin-itis to me.

Does that give the forum police carte blanche on flaming anyone they want? I got flame for doing 200fsw the other day. They same guy flamed a woman for doing 167fsw. Who does he think he is?

If it were me as a new diver posting that I unwittingly went to 200fsw or even 167fsw, I'd appreciate a good old chastising. Did nothing in the poster's training or certification get through their thick skulls about diving beyond recreational limits and the potential hazards of doing so? I'll take a good ass chewing and put a band-aid on my ego over a pine box any day. Further, machismo accounts of reckless diving practices does little to foster safe diving practices to the hundreds of new or prospective divers visiting SB for the first time reading these posts. Sorry if that offends.

 

[Christi]

First of all, I think that Sticky is the single most useful bit of information as it pertains to Coz and Christi you are to be commended for your effort: Thank You! Sorry for the cheer leading. Anyway, it does need to be updated and FWIW, a sticky can contain many posts exceeding any max character limitations. Separating it into separate posts would be a good way to categorize the information such as alcina has done with this UW Photography Sticky. Alcina is however an SB staff member allowing her to edit and mod posts as required. I think what we're missing in the Coz forum is someone with the authority to edit and post to a sticky.

Thanks Josh I will work on an update regarding local info to the sticky. I'll post it as a new thread and if anyone has anything to add or correct, we can do so before getting a mod to make it a sticky...fair enough? Good suggestin about breaking it up - I hadn't thought of that

I have to be out of the office for the next few hours and have a busy day ahead of me - but I'll work on it over the weekend!

 

[Rhone Man]

Not sure why you put the brackets around the o in too. Would you explain that please?

I was just correcting your spelling ("too" instead of "to"). The brackets denoted that I inserted the letter "[o]" rather than it appearing in your original post.

 

[Rhone Man]

Just to be clear - I don't advocate flaming people - and I don't think that the trolls make SB more fun. I don't think of myself as a troll, but I don't mind making the odd pretty sarcastic comment (see above).

But rough and tumble is part of message boards. It is like a conversation in a pub - you cannot avoid loud obnoxious people who would rather shout and criticise than listen; either ignore them or push back - it's not like an audience with the Queen.

But on the whole I find SB more civilised than a great many other forums.

Just my 2 psi.

 

[driftin' by]

I have to be out of the office for the next few hours and have a busy day ahead of me - but I'll work on it over the weekend!

Excellent... I look forward to it.

On that note, maybe some of us regulars here are at times a bit critical and sometimes militant but we are here because we love Cozumel and love to share what we know about our experiences on the island... information that we hope is valuable to others. That information comes at a cost also. Of all the millions of other things I could be doing with my time I choose to spend my spare time reading SB and imparting whatever knowledge I feel may be useful to others and never expect a thank you. As Christi mentioned above, she is going to take precious time from her weekend to work on updating the sticky. Meanwhile people will come and go and post a broad question like "who's the best dive op?". If they get their feelings hurt because they didn't get a lengthy detailed thesis about the history of diving in Cozumel listing all ops that have come and gone and who today undeniably ranks supreme but instead is told by one of the few "forum police" that they may want to perform a search or reference the sticky, then that is too bad.

Peace out!
[Stepping down of soapbox]

 

[driftin' by]

Not sure Marg was wanting any results out of this post other than just a discussion. Since Christi is taking the lead with the existing sticky I'd like to make a motion for another sticky that will allow divers to rate/review Cozumel dive operators similar to what I mentioned above with the conditions report for Texas dive sites. Below I've outlined a template the each reviewer would cut a past into their post with their responses. I like the idea of a rating system of different categories that will sum to give the op an overall rating. Please, if you think there should be something added or omitted, I'm open for suggestions. I think questions posed will provide information about the op that is not readily available on their website and it'll give some relevancy about the reviewer and their experiences. The important thing about it is that the template is used and completed with each review without any excessive verbiage or rambling.

Cozumel Dive Operator Review
Dive Operator Used:
Hotel where you stayed:
Dates:
Type of Operator: [No Frills] [In Between] [White Glove]
Type of Boats: [Fast 6-Pack] [Large and Comfortable]
Price Paid Per Tank:
Hotel Pier Pickup:
Quality of Rental Gear if used:
Nitrox available:

Ratings on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best, whole numbers only...
Email/Phone Communication:
Timeliness:
Boats:
DM's:
Captains:
Briefings:
Diver's Pick Sites:
Dive Computer Limits:
Surface Intervals:
Onboard refreshments/snacks:
Expectations Met:
Total (sum of above):

Single best thing you liked about this operator:
Single worst thing you dislike about this operator:
Will you use them again?:

A little about you...
Number of dives in Cozumel:
Number of other ops used in Cozumel:
Date of last trip to Cozumel:
Number of vacation dive trips per year:
Other dive vacation islands visited: