diver etiquette

[Guba]

(watching bug-eyed during the rant...but essentially agreeing )
Uh, yeah...what he said!

Going back to the "truck in the forest" idea: Is it okay to take the license plate or perhaps the hood ornament? Ask yourself this one question for an EASY answer...Is it YOUR truck? If you don't have the papers, then no, it's not okay to take items off it. As for wrecks, if they're in international waters, then MAYBE you have a case for removing items. If they're in ANYONE'S territorial waters (state or national), then they are not yours. SOMEONE owns them, and taking items off them is essentially pilfering.

 

[Matt P]

If the owner of the property has placed an antique truck out on the property as a point of interest to attract hikers and sightseers, than yes, it is a bad thing.

Agreed - in which case it is similar to a reef program ship as opposed to a ship wreck.

 

[Matt P]

SOMEONE owns them, and taking items off them is essentially pilfering.

Yes, if someone owns it then it is in fact pilfering. Which, it goes without saying, is not acceptable.

I do believe there is a such thing as "too much." But, I haven't formulated a clear thought on exactly what is "too much." For now, it's one of those I know it when I see it things.

As far as the divers who take tools to pull things off a wreck. Yeah, that falls into the category of "too much."

For the record - I don't take anything off wrecks. I've never taken a single rusty old screw, not even a muscle or oyster. Never. Nothing. And, I'm not advocating that an artifact can be taken from just any wreck. But, there certainly are times when it is legal and in fact appropriate to recover an artifact.

 

[subageezer]

Maybe a distinction can be made between an artificial reef and a wreck. This is a new environment for me and I haven't formulated a solid position on it. My inclination is to just leave things as I find them and I'm totally convinced it's wrong to disturb a reef artificial or natural.

My thinking is none of this is dive etiquate but rather dive ethics which could be driven much by situation. If I'm following these two threads correctly, there is some differing opinions on some finer points of the issue while the majority view removing items from an artifial reef as wrong.

Until I have a clearer picture on differentiating between wrecks and artificial reefs, I'll be content to just get me back in the boat. Both threads have been fascinating and informative providing much food for thought.

 

[mtg]

are you asking about diver etiquette, or about stealing from protected sites? The two are different questions. Should the coast guard be responsible for policing wreck sites, instead of doing what they do? That's another question too, and perhaps another thread...

Not intended as a post about stealing from protected sites. More about how people should behave period.

From reading here I have realized where my aversion to removing anything from anywhere comes from...I am an avid hiker, and the saying is "take only pictures, leave only footprints". There is a similar saying among divers (who probably hike). It is not in my nature to go somewhere and snag a trophy of the trip.

 

[subageezer]

Not intended as a post about stealing from protected sites. More about how people should behave period.

From reading here I have realized where my aversion to removing anything from anywhere comes from...I am an avid hiker, and the saying is "take only pictures, leave only footprints". There is a similar saying among divers (who probably hike). It is not in my nature to go somewhere and snag a trophy of the trip.

Amen. I believe campers and hikers have a deep respect for nature and prefer to leave it alone. Decision made, I'm taking nothing.

 

[miked]

Interesting replies. This is one of those issues that tends to polarize people.
How unusual for SB.

My feelings tend to be in the "take pictures, leave bubbles" camp.
One point that I don't think I've seen in the thread (I Read through the posts, but I might have missed it.):

To what extent is a "real" (vs deliberately sunk) wreck someone's final resting place??
I have heard people accuse "souvenir takers" of being grave robbers. IMO that is a bit extreme, but it depends on too many variables to get into here.
Any thoughts?

Take care,
Mike

 

[Ilovekentucky]

I see it more along the lines of stumbling upon a rusty, deteriorating old abandoned pickup truck in the woods. It's been there for decades. Given enough time nature will handle it (a little salt water would help the process). Is it a bad thing for you to pop the 1950's license plate off the bumper?

I do beleive he said "stumbled upon" meaning un-mapped, and not purposely put there for anyones viewing pleasure. And also "abandoned" which means the papers are probabaly in the glove box!!!!!! And on second thought also, it really isn't good for the envoriment anyways.........if he wanted to take the whole thing he'd probabaly be helping all of the wildlife around it! So no I don't think its a bad thing.

 

[Blacthorn]

The difference here is that once the truck has been found, then what happens if it becomes a huge attraction where hikers from all over the world come to see the "great lost pickup from the 50's" Then what happens if you have a family from Germany and all the little Dieter wants to see is the liscense plate from this authentic pickup in the woods? But once they get there, its gone, because, well no one would ever care about a liscense plate from the 50's on a old abandoned truck right? So now Dieter has to be in therapy for years, his mom and dad get a divorce cause they fight all the time from how upset he is. Little Deiter starts to become a painter, moves to Austria, writes a book, moves back to Germany, becomes Chancellor, and you know what happens then... World War 3 all because of that little plate, that no one cared about.

Okay yes I know I went way overboard there, but there is a valide point in there, somewhere, amoung the REALLY poorly mispelled words.

 

[RJP]

dive ethics which could be driven much by situation.

"Situational ethics"?