Diving "Conservative" vs Nitrox

[rob.mwpropane]

@rob.mwpropane Can you ask a more specific question? What exactly are you confused about?

Did you read the 1st post? I thought I did but here you go;

"Can you get the same results from setting a computer to be more conservative vs just switching over to nitrox?"

At least in my experience I have, and I say setting a computer but it's not really that. It's what's been discussed, moving slower, ascending slower, padding the last stop, etc.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

The risk of DCS is already so low for recreational scuba that any reduction of that risk would be less than a percentage point. Nitrox is great for allowing longer bottom times or shorter surface intervals. Anything else is just conjecture.

 

[arkstorm]

..."buddy dives nitrox all the time even on dives where it wasn't needed because it makes him feel better.

...buddy would always feel tired after dives and doesn't feel that way after switching to nitrox.

Can you get the same results from setting a computer to be more conservative vs just switching over to nitrox?

No, because its about EAD not NDL.

Changing your computer to a more conservative setting will reduce the NDL time (or in the case of gradient factors, it will alter the decompression profile in a dive with mandatory decompression stops, i.e., depth of first deco stop and length of final deco stop).

Using enriched air Nitrox results in a "shallower" equivalent air depth "EAD". In other words, in terms of inert gas (nitrogen) loading, an 80-foot dive with air is equivalent to a 65-foot dive with EAN32 or a 59-foot dive with EAN36.

So the reason your buddy feels better with Nitrox than air is because he has taken up less inert gas and, therefore, has fewer micro bubbles coursing around after the dive, a/k/a "silent bubbles". An excess of silent bubbles increases post dive fatigue.

Slowing the ascent rate and/or doing longer and/or multiple safety stops would also reduce micro bubbles as long as it doesn't come at the cost of further on-gassing of slow tissues.

For recreational no-decompression-stop diving, using Nitrox could reduce post dive fatigue, but so can simply reducing your depth and/or time exposure. Changing your computer to a more conservative setting does not serve that purpose.

 

[Moerae]

Yeah I read your post. I still did not understand what the actual question is.

Did you read the 1st post? I thought I did but here you go;

"Can you get the same results from setting a computer to be more conservative vs just switching over to nitrox?"

At least in my experience I have, and I say setting a computer but it's not really that. It's what's been discussed, moving slower, ascending slower, padding the last stop, etc.

What do you mean by "the same result"?

 

[SetheryJ]

I really don’t understand how nitrox is the most misunderstood thing in diving. All I can figure is crappy open water training that didn’t lay a proper foundation followed by a crappy nitrox course that didn’t fully explain how things work.

1. Adjusting conservatism in decompression models is not the same as adjusting inert gas intake.
2. Nitrox reduces the amount of inert gas that is brought into the tissue compartments, which lessens the amount of inert gas that must be dispelled from said tissues.
3. There are no peer reviewed journals showing nitrox has an appreciable impact on how one feels post dive….and yet literally everyone agrees they feel better on nitrox (including young 20 year olds lol).
4. Relating to how one feels post dive, it would stand to reason that if you ongas less inert gas and therefore offgas less inert gas you are putting less of a strain on your body…
5. As to the misinformation in this post about “moving too fast” or ascending “too fast” and needing to slow down the dive, I’d encourage that person to research more before posting.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

No, because its not about the NDL but rather the EAD.

Assuming an equal depth and duration, your buddy feels better with Nirtox because he has taken up less inert gas and, therefore, has fewer micro bubbles coursing around after the dive.

I disagree, at least until someone proves to me otherwise. If you feel bad tired after diving with air I think you're doing something wrong. I "think" you can change your approach to diving and feel much better.

I would rather dive more conservatively, go into deco, and ascend much slower than just arbitrarily throwing nitrox at the issue of feeling "tired". When someone tells me they always feel tired after dives my 1st go to is how do you ascend in the last 20', how hydrated are you, etc? Not.. "oh hey you should dive nitrox, you'll feel much better". While it might work I don't think it's the correct approach.

Hence the discussion.. maybe I'm wrong.

What do you mean by "the same result"?


People are trying to answer OP without understanding his question first. We don't know if he's talking about the same dive time or not (e.g. a more conservative computer would have a shorter NDL).

This is basically how my conversation went on Sat. I said something along the lines of you can get the same results changing your approach to diving vs just throwing a bandaid on it and diving nitrox. I asked him what type of gf's did his buddy dive, how fast does he come up, etc.

 

[SetheryJ]

I disagree, at least until someone proves to me otherwise. If you feel "bad" after diving with air I think you're doing something wrong. I "think" you can change your approach to diving and feel much better.

I would rather dive more conservatively, go into deco, and ascend much slower than just arbitrarily throwing nitrox at the issue of feeling "tired". When someone tells me they always feel tired after dives my 1st go to is how do you ascend in the last 20', how hydrated are you, etc? Not.. "oh hey you should dive nitrox, you'll feel much better". While it might work I don't think it's the correct approach.

Hence the discussion.. maybe I'm wrong.




This is basically how my conversation went on Sat. I said something along the lines of you can get the same results changing your approach to diving vs just throwing a bandaid on it and diving nitrox. I asked him what type of gf's did his buddy dive, how fast does he come up, etc.

You’re wrong.

There is a big difference between someone feeling BAD and someone feeling tired and/or more fatigued. The fact that you’d even suggest that you’d rather “go into deco” on air rather than using nitrox is self evident that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

You’re literally saying you’d rather intentionally on-gas more Inert gas at depth as a way to “be more conservative” rather than to literally use a nitrox mix that’s fundamentally designed to keep a person from ongassing more inert gas.

You need to seriously hit the books on this subject. You are propagating some seriously false info. Your friend is absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong. Why in the world do you think that nitrox is used to the degree it is in technical diving? Why is helium used in trimix, why is inert gas intake so important and managing inert gas intake so important.

Please, read up on this before trying to convince your friend to do dangerous and incorrect things.

 

[Moerae]

This is basically how my conversation went on Sat. I said something along the lines of you can get the same results changing your approach to diving vs just throwing a bandaid on it and diving nitrox. I asked him what type of gf's did his buddy dive, how fast does he come up, etc.

I asked you what you meant by "same result" and then you just repeated "same result".

I still don't know what your actual question is.

So far I have your questio0n/assertion as "If you dive conservatively it's the same as diving nitrox". But the agreement/rebuttal of that completely depends on what you mean by "the same".

 

[arkstorm]

I disagree, at least until someone proves to me otherwise. If you feel "bad" after diving with air I think you're doing something wrong. I "think" you can change your approach to diving and feel much better.

I would rather dive more conservatively, go into deco, and ascend much slower than just arbitrarily throwing nitrox at the issue of feeling "tired". When someone tells me they always feel tired after dives my 1st go to is how do you ascend in the last 20', how hydrated are you, etc? Not.. "oh hey you should dive nitrox, you'll feel much better". While it might work I don't think it's the correct approach.

Hence the discussion.. maybe I'm wrong.

Well, Albert R. Behnke proved you wrong...in the early 1950's.

The relationship between micro bubbles and post dive fatigue is pretty well settled science at this point.

Nitrox = less nitrogen loading = less micro bubbles = less post dive fatigue.

I'm not sure what proof you are looking for other than what's been understood and explained by the science of dive physiology for at least 3/4 of a century now.

I'm getting the feeling you're the sort of guy who would never allow well-established science to interfere with his closely held opinions.

 

[johndiver999]

You’re wrong.

There is a big difference between someone feeling BAD and someone feeling tired and/or more fatigued. The fact that you’d even suggest that you’d rather “go into deco” on air rather than using nitrox is self evident that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

You’re literally saying you’d rather intentionally on-gas more Inert gas at depth as a way to “be more conservative” rather than to literally use a nitrox mix that’s fundamentally designed to keep a person from ongassing more inert gas.

You need to seriously hit the books on this subject. You are propagating some seriously false info. Your friend is absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong. Why in the world do you think that nitrox is used to the degree it is in technical diving? Why is helium used in trimix, why is inert gas intake so important and managing inert gas intake so important.

Please, read up on this before trying to convince your friend to do dangerous and incorrect things.

Yeah pretty much agree, plus casually extending an air dive into deco, (rather than use nitrox to avoid it) is ridiculous from a safety standpoint. Going into required deco complicates the dive immensely, increases your vulnerability to failures and problems and even makes you a less capable buddy should an emergency occur. I'm not so sure how the OP got so far off track on this.