Diving off Private Boats

[scubasean]

You know, this poor guy asked a pretty simple question.

Well...sort of...Technically, he asked a question calling for a legal conclusion...

 

[BILLB]

If it were my boat, all would sign a legal diving waiver before the boat leaves the dock. Myself being a certified dive instructor with liability insurance, I would be required to have O2 and proper first aid equipment on board.

I supposed this boat will be in NJ. At 22 feet in length, the water off NJ better be like a lake. Anything worst would greatly complicate the diving effort. Since almost every thing off NJ has no mooring buoys, setting the anchor is a trick. Simple snagging is done but most boats have a DM "set the hook" and then stay on board until the other divers have finished the dive. The boat captain should not dive until all divers are onboard. A qualified crew member must be available to captain the boat while the captain is diving.

Unfortunately I have heard of many instants where the entire boat crew is diving and the boat breaks the anchor hold and drifts off. NJ diving is very unforgiving, so dive safe and always be able to answer in a court of law the question: "What were you doing when the the diver died (was injured, Etc.)?"

 

[truva]

Is not the question so much as someone (Genesis) as had a reason to actually research the answer……..

The most important thing to me was the ladder, those little things they call swim ladders just won’t do. Make one that goes much deeper into the water and that won’t get beaten apart in the waves.

Truva

 

[Genesis]

Yeah, the ladder is important.

It really sux if you rip it off the boat trying to reboard. Its even worse if it (or the boat) brains you in the process

 

[2Dive4fun]

I posted a picture of my dive ladder in the DIY section. Sorry, no plans, but I have not seen a stroger built ladder for private use.

 

[The Kraken]

To many of us the vast majority of "Open Water Dives" are dives that are not done in "Confined Water". Most of my dives are in a rather large lake. I have a 30' pontoon boat for which I manufactured a more than adequate dive ladder. A pontoon boat, especially one of this size makes an excellent platform from which to dive.

One can safely assume that I would not take it out on the ocean, if the ocean is the only place that constitutes an "open water dive".

 

[The Kraken]

This is simply not true with regards to recreational vessels to the degree you're positing.

I have extensively researched this matter, and the language is clear in the law involved - and it is black letter law.

I've talked to the USCG personally about this as well, and as I said, it simply isn't an issue. There is NOTHING wrong with splitting fuel and operating expenses - nothing whatsoever. There is also nothing wrong with your friends bringing food and beverages aboard.

There is no way that your expenses in operation of a boat are limited to the fuel you consume. No chance in hades. So long as you do not take an arbitrary amount of money as a condition of carriage, that is, people voluntarily contribute to the actual costs of the voyage (which of course cannot be reasonably determined until you return to the dock), you are well within the safe harbor provisions of the law. This is true even if you go out with three or four friends and at the end of the day they fill your entire tank (e.g. you pay for none of the fuel); you're STILL in the clear, as the operational cost of the vessel over that period of time is in no way represented by fuel burn.

That you run every Saturday isn't an issue either. If you work Monday through Friday, and dive Saturdays, and your boat runs every saturday the weather is reasonable, you're still fine.

In reality what happens if you truly do things on a voluntary basis (that is, you're doing things within the law, not trying to run a "back door" charter service) is that you'll take your best guess on fuel consumed for the day, make it known what that is when you get back to the dock, and everyone gives you whatever they wish.

Your "enforcement" is limited to not inviting someone who gives nothing (or far too little) on the next trip. You're not taking them out for money - they're your FRIENDS. If they don't stick around to wash up the boat and act like friends, you don't take them the next time!

Where you can get in trouble is if you start telling people "I'll take you diving for $50 for the day." That is clearly a "for-hire" operation.

If some commercial outfit tries to make trouble for you, they would find themselves on the wrong end of a really nasty civil action - at least they would if it was me they wanted to play with. I know where the line is and stay WELL on the "right" side of it, and am more than happy to make a LOT of trouble for anyone who tried to cause me problems for their pecuniary benefit.

Insurance is an entirely different matter, but real marine insurance companies have no problem with this sort of thing, as its done literally every day. I've yet to go out on ANYONE'S boat (other than my own of course) and not hand the owner some cash when we get back in for fuel. This is not just a common practice, its "how its done" with privately operated vessels, and no real marine insurance company is going to have a problem with it.

If you don't have real marine insurance (and no, companies like State Farm do NOT count) then you might indeed have something ugly in your policy - check it closely. Then again, check it closely anyway - if you don't have agreed value insurance, environmental coverage and the rest that you get with a real marine insurance carrier, you need to switch to one for completely different reasons.

Civil aviation is an entirely different matter - I've glanced at those rules but have not looked extensively at them, as I don't fly. But friends of mine who do have told me that technically I cannot put fuel in their plane if they take me somewhere without them being technically in violation of the rules regarding their non-commercial private-pilot's license.

That provision IS in the USCG regs and was EXPLICITLY added to cover this situation.

There are two things being disucssed here. One is a GIFT from a participant and the other amounts to a CONTRACT entered into by two parties such that one agrees to pay the other for services rendered.

 

[zboss]

Nonsense.
On a 22' boat carrying more than six DIVERS will be impossible with tanks and gear while remaining within the capacity plate. Not a snowball's chance in hades on that one. A diver is about one and a half "persons" for purposes of computing capacity, assuming they show up with two tanks and standard gear; remember that the capacity plate shows BOTH a person AND weight load, and you cannot safely exceed EITHER.

has a max persons of 10 and max capacity of 2,200 pounds... for six divers that would mean that each person (including the captain) can weight in at over 360 pounds, including equipment! Very doable. The max I would say for my boat, not including the non-diving "captain" would be six if you take into account the usual boat gear.

 

[zboss]

For the most part true but not all diving is open water. And not all pontoon boats are created equal.

I'm lucky to have a power cat but I would never take a pontoon boat out on 3-4 foot chop. The structure is simply too weak. Besides the front of the boat would dig when running.

 

[zboss]

The laddder may be the most difficult to achieve as that can be costly. We'll figure something out.

Thanks again for a replies.

Some ladders to cost a bit... I have been on a search for a good ladder that I don't have to keep replacing. There are several people on this board that can custom build a ladder to fit your needs. If custom isn't your style be sure to get one that has four rails, three really doesn't cut it, especially if you are diving in chop. Personally, I am looking for a sturdy five rail flip-up, or a VERY sturdy 4 rail.

BTW - I would also recommend that you bring along a strap net with floats on one side and line one the other side to attach to cleats. In the case of an unconscious diver, it would be very difficult to get them out of the water without being able to roll them up on the deck. This is also one of the primary reasons a like power cats over small deep-vee. I can load all my people to one side in big seas (not that I do unless I am running funny) because there are TWO hulls. During rescue sumulations it's great having a boat that can support a lot of weight on one side without rolling much.