Diving without Weights

[Northeastwrecks]

Dweeb, instead of taking all the time to respond to your posts, I'll just tell you the basis for my argument. I usually dive with 34 pounds. For one dive, I dropped down to 30 pounds. During that dive, adding air to my drysuit made me bob up too dramatically - I was just too light. Although I completed the dive safely, and was naturally buoyant at the surface before the dive, I put the weight back on before I returned to the water for my second dive.

Then again, I weigh 285. For me, an extra four pounds is not big deal. For others, they may feel differently. To each his own. Perhaps it’s best to respectfully disagree and leave it at that. Nice talking to you.

With all due respect, I'd suggest that you review your OW course materials. More specifically, check the section that discusses how to weight yourself correctly.

I see two potential issues. First, when you dropped to 30 lbs, you were underweighted. Second, you put too much air in the drysuit. Either would cause the problem you described.

Regardless, this is not a major issue. Perform a buoyancy check, determine the weight that you need and wear it. Adjust as needed for new/different equipment.

FWIW, I'm not a body builder (far from it), but I don't need extra weight. I dive BP&W with LP104's and a dry suit in cold water. I dive a BP&W with an 18 lb batwing and an AL80 in the Carribean. Either way, I don't carry droppable weight and I don't have a problem doing hangs or maintaining a 10 fpm ascent rate throughout the dive. So I don't quite see the reason to deliberately overweight.

Sounds to me like Flex is just one of the lucky people who don't need weight.

 

[Hank49]

dive with alluminum tanks,Sea Quest BC ....I Generally dive in a 3mm shorty but early in the year use a two piece farmer jon style Wetsuit.
Yes that would be a concern about not being able to dumo weights in an emergency, ..............HUMMM..........OK
Thanks ............Anyone ELse Dive without weight,???

If you can do a safety stop at 5 meters with 50 bar left in your tank, and not be popping to the surface, with or without weight, you're properly weighted. If I don't wear a wetsuit, I don't need weights either. My son can dive without weights using a 2mm shortie. You're obviously lean and mean, dude.

 

[Wijbrandus]

Sounds to me like Flex is just one of the lucky people who don't need weight.

I hate people like that.

I'm 31 lbs in fresh and cold, and I still wear 16 in the Carribbean hot tub. :11:

 

[Northeastwrecks]

If you can do a safety stop at 5 meters with 50 bar left in your tank, and not be popping to the surface, with or without weight, you're properly weighted. If I don't wear a wetsuit, I don't need weights either. My son can dive without weights using a 2mm shortie. You're obviously lean and mean, dude.

I agree. I'd add that I usually suggest that the stop be done at 10 feet (3m) for a couple of reasons.

First, I have observed that many divers drift up or down a bit on their stops. While the correct solution to this problem is proper buoyancy skills, making sure that you can hang at 10 fsw also helps prevent problems if you accidentally drift a bit high.

Second, my profiles usually call for stops at 20 and 10 fsw. For that reason, I check my ability to hang at 10 with nearly empty tanks.

 

[donacheson]

Exactly!

Proper weight is the minimum amount of weight needed to maintain neutral buoyancy at all points during the dive with no air left in the BC and only the minimum amount of air in a drysuit needed to avoid suit squeeze.

That's not a realistic statement. Taken literally, a diver woul;d have to add weight continuouslythroughout the dive because of the loss off weight of gas as he/she breathed his/her tank down.

More precisely, minimal weight needed is that needed to be neutral with an empty BC, no air in the drysuit, a near empty tank, and breathing normally just below the surface.

 

[donacheson]

Yup. This was covered long ago, asi I recall correcly, in my PADI OWD course, you are suposed to have just enough weight so you have the water up to your mask (middle of the mask) with the BC with no air.

You probably do recall correctly, but as stated it makes no sense. Is it done with a full tank? How much does the portion of one's head reamining above the water weigh? Should the diver's lungs be full or empty.

In short, if you do it your way with a full tank, about a half a head still above the water, and breathing normally, you'll 10 to 15 pounds light. Your way is similar to the way my instructor (in 1978) approximately weighted his students, but he had three other things working in his favor- he added weight for a full tank, he had his students empty their lungs, and we wore full 1/4 inch wet suits which compress a lot even at 30 feet.

 

[donacheson]

...

I can only think of one instance where a couple extra pounds might be desireable ... drift diving ... and even that's debatable unless your skills are adequate to recognize and react quickly to changes in depth induced by upwellings/downwellings.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

While I agree with what you had to say before the quoted comment, there are other circumstances where overweighting is justified. Wreck divers grubbing in the sand for artifacts and photographers sitting/kneeling/lying on the bottom to get a good photo are two examples.

Furthermore, IMHO, drift diving is not a circumstance in which one should be overweighted. Overweighting exaggerates the reponse of a diver to depth changes. Upwellings/downwellings are best over come by lung control and finning, reserving dumping/adding air from/to one's BC for extreme situations.

 

[coreypenrose]

With all due respect, I'd suggest that you review your OW course materials. More specifically, check the section that discusses how to weight yourself correctly.

10% plus ten pounds, add for weight for drysuits, take off for steel tanks, ect.....

I see two potential issues. First, when you dropped to 30 lbs, you were underweighted. Second, you put too much air in the drysuit. Either would cause the problem you described.

Naaa, I checked at the surface with an empty BC and suit and 30 lbs. The water hit just in the center of my mask. By definition, I was neutrally buoyant. Regardless, I just felt better when I replaced those extra pounds. When I rechecked my buoyancy at the surface, the water level was still on my mask with an empty suit and BC so I was, again, by definition, neutrally buoyant.

Regardless, this is not a major issue.

Exactly my point. A few extra pounds isn't a big deal with cold water divers. It's a matter of comfort. If I feel really cold, I like to add some additional air to my suit. If I have to do an open water ascent, I don't like having to completely drain my suit and flare when the water temps are 47 degrees and I have to hang out doing nothing for three minutes. If I decide to take pictures, a little extra weight can help to keep you planted in moderate to heavy surge.

I knew a diver who dove with a 40 pound belt and 20 pounds in his BC. To me, that guy was overweighted!

 

[Daryl Morse]

The positive of diving without a weightbelt is comfort.

The negative of diving without ditchable weight is that you may not be able to establish positive buoyancy in some cases.

The one that comes to mind is a complete BC failure.

When you first get to the bottom, you are heavy by the amount of gas in your tank above your end pressure (That is about five pounds for an AL80) and whatever you lose through compression of neoprene. (At forty feet you would lose a bit more than half of whatever the buoyancy of your wetgear is at the surface.)

That could easily come to fifteen or twenty pounds, which may be tough to swim up. The good news is that once you are on the surface, you get the buoyancy from the wetgear back and just have to carry the gas. More good news is that you probably used up a fair chunk of the gas swimming that load up and now you do not need to carry as much.

Just adding weight will not change this. Removing weight somewhere else, as with a tank change or BC change, and adding ditchable weight to get back to the same trim is a possibility.

I prefer to be able to stay at the surface without swimming with a flat wing and a full tank by dropping something, usually a weightbelt.

I would consider changing the tank or BC, but I would not go into an uproar over it.

I think a few people need to read Don's post again. If a diver does a buoyancy check (i.e., near empty tank, empty BC, empty drysuit, yada, yada, yada) and is neutral with no additional weight, then adding weight just so it can be ditched is WRONG! In this case, it might be a good idea to reduce the weight of the tank(s) or bp so there is some ditchable weight, in case positive buoyancy is needed on the surface (e.g., in case of injury or in order to aid a stricken diver).

This is what I don't get about about the steel tank vs. aluminum tank argument. In order to be neutral, a diver must have a certain amount of weight, irrespective of whether the weight is comprised of heavier steel tanks or a heavier weight belt. 80 cf of air weighs the same whether its in a steel tank or an aluminum tank. If a diver using an aluminum tank needs 30 lbs of weight to be neutral, then switching to steel tanks means some weight can be taken off weight belt, but the total weight will be the same. Steel tanks are negative at the end of a dive because they are heavier in the first place. Or am I just confused?

 

[RichLockyer]

Naaa, I checked at the surface with an empty BC and suit and 30 lbs. The water hit just in the center of my mask. By definition, I was neutrally buoyant.

Was this with a full or an empty tank? If the tank was full, then you were not neutral... you were 5 pounds light, and would bob like a cork at the end of the dive and not be able to maintain your safety stop.

Getting weighting correct with a drysuit is a bit more tricky than PADI's material would lead us to believe... you pretty much have to do it under actual dive conditions, as you MUST allow for some air in the suit, and cannot duplicate this on the surface before descent.


A good trick is to get a length of webbing and put 2-pound weights on it, spaced apart by a foot. You know that you need at least 25 pounds, so go ahead and put this on your regular belt. You know that you can dive comfortably with 34 pounds, so your ideal weighting will be in that range.... put 5 of the 2# weights on the belt.
Drain your tank to 500psi and hop in the water, holding the extra 10 pounds. On the bottom, inflate your suit so that you are comfortable (I go for a slight squeeze but where I can still move my arms easily). Now lay the test belt out on the bottom, and grip it by one end. The number of weights that rise off of the bottom when you are at a full normal inhale is the amount of weight that you need for fresh water to remain neutral with an empty tank.

For salt water, put yourself and ALL of your gear on a scale. Take the total weight and multiply by .02. This is the amount of weight that you need to add for salt water. Most people in the 200-230 pound range usually need to add about 7 pounds.... so if you are properly weighted at 34 pounds in salt water, then you would only lift one of the 2# blocks off of the bottom in the test above.