Diving without Weights

[coreypenrose]

I prefer to never let my equipment attempt to compensate for a skills issue.

But you do. Instead of using a harness to hold your tank, most people use BC's to make fine-tuning buoyancy easier. Instead of using minimal fins and a dolphin kick, we use full-sized fins or bio fins. Instead of pulling the lever when breathing through a reg becomes difficult, we dive with a SPG. Instead of diving with tables, most dive with computers. Equipment advances = easier diving.

If he is correctly weighted, he's correctly weighted. And correctly weighted is the least amount of weight necessary to be neutrally bouyant at the surface. No more, no less.

I agree. We aren't, however, talking about an exact science. An Al 80 is negatively buoyant at the start of a dive and positively buoyant at the end of the dive. So, a diver can deal with this in two different ways. 1 - Work very carefully to avoid an uncontrolled ascent at the end of the dive or 2 - Add a little extra weight into your weight belt and forget about it. If you're diving with a DUI Weight II, you'll never notice the additional pounds.

Simply adding weight or going "a few extra pounds heavy" is actually either going to just screw up your bouyancy and trim, or start you on the road to a world of hurt if a BC/Drysuit should ever fail.

Oh come on. If you have a good weight system, you'll never even notice an extra few pounds.

 

[Boogie711]

But you do. Instead of using a harness to hold your tank, most people use BC's to make fine-tuning buoyancy easier. Instead of using minimal fins and a dolphin kick, we use full-sized fins or bio fins. Instead of pulling the lever when breathing through a reg becomes difficult, we dive with a SPG. Instead of diving with tables, most dive with computers. Equipment advances = easier diving.



I agree. We aren't, however, talking about an exact science. An Al 80 is negatively buoyant at the start of a dive and positively buoyant at the end of the dive. So, a diver can deal with this in two different ways. 1 - Work very carefully to avoid an uncontrolled ascent at the end of the dive or 2 - Add a little extra weight into your weight belt and forget about it. If you're diving with a DUI Weight II, you'll never notice the additional pounds.



Oh come on. If you have a good weight system, you'll never even notice an extra few pounds.

Well, we respectfully disagree then (and this is coming from a Jet Fin wearing Dolphin Kicker.) Extra weight is extra weight... it doesn't matter where it's placed or how it's placed on the body - it still makes you overweighted. As a result, you require more air or BC in the suit than is necessary, thus making it more difficult to a) maintain proper trim and bouyancy and b) swim up your rig in the event of a BC failure.

Divers should be weighted for neutral bouyancy with an empty tank at the surface. Period. Not "a few pounds heavier just for safety's sake." I argue that that is in fact not only unnecessary, but even less safe.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

To my concern, being overweighted makes an uncontrolled ascent more likely ... not less so.

Consider the simplest application of Boyle's Law with respect to what happens to your air spaces as you ascend. More weight means you need more air to compensate at depth. As you ascend, that additional air expands ... and you have to get rid of it. Wait a couple seconds too long, and you suddenly have a LOT of air to get rid of.

Overweighting is one of the biggest reasons why newer divers have buoyancy control issues ... because more weight means you have to make larger adjustments in terms of venting and inflating with depth changes. All too often a slight hesitancy in venting air on an ascent will result in an overweighted diver making an uncontrolled ascent due to the expansion of a too-large amount of air in their BCD.

I can only think of one instance where a couple extra pounds might be desireable ... drift diving ... and even that's debatable unless your skills are adequate to recognize and react quickly to changes in depth induced by upwellings/downwellings.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rick Inman]

Overweighting is one of the biggest reasons why newer divers have buoyancy control issues ... because more weight means you have to make larger adjustments in terms of venting and inflating with depth changes. All too often a slight hesitancy in venting air on an ascent will result in an overweighted diver making an uncontrolled ascent due to the expansion of a too-large amount of air in their BCD.

Bingo. Add dry suit air and double the problem. A year ago it was me. Even adding weight for my BP and steel95, I have dropped 20# in a year. Forget how much easier it is to dive, just the ease of moving gear around on the surface is worth it!

I can only think of one instance where a couple extra pounds might be desireable ... drift diving ...

There is one spot on the local river where 4# extra helps. The trout like to move up into the really fast water to feed and it's fun to watch. The only way to get there is to dump all your air and slowly haul (pull) yourself along the bottom from rock to rock. One slip (or even too small a rock) and you are sailing back down to the pools. A little extra weight helps keep you at the bottom and reduces the "bounce factor". Fun!

 

[dweeb]

Diving with little to no weight can increase your chances of an uncontrolled ascent, especially in those last 20 feet.

It’s good to dive light, but there’s something to be said for having that safety margin of a little extra weight – especially if you switch to a drysuit or forget to completely drain your BC.

That's ridiculous. If you're neutral in your gear with 20 lb. of lead, and I'm NEGATIVE with no lead, then who has the extra margin of safety? If I should wear 8 lb. just to guard against an uncontrolled ascent, should you up it to 28 lb.? The only amount of weight that will prevent an uncontrolled ascent above 40 feet will make it impossible to be neutral at 65 feet, because it would have to be enough to overcome almost all your buoyancy at the shallower depth.

 

[dweeb]

Yes, it's certainly possible to be correctly weighted in some situations without carrying extra lead for tropical or fresh water divers.

OR for cold and saltwater divers. Depends on the diver.

But, I ask you, how often have you seen someone dive in a seven mil suit without carrying some kind of extra weight - be it with four-five tanks for the tech guys or extra lead for the rest of us.

Well, very few of the experienced divers I know dive wet when it's cold enough for a seven mil, but I know a lot of divers who dive without weights in their drysuits, and without any stage bottles.

Yes, of course. Hence the need for a little extra weight when diving cold water to prevent uncontrolled ascents.

NOT if you're neutral or negative without it.

I'm not talking about wearing an extra twenty pounds. What I'm advising against is, and I'm sure you've seen this as an Alaska diver, is working to prune away every extra pound and taking the absolute bare minimum of weight when wearing seven mil suits or drysuits - as the original poster is doing.

You need to work on that reading comprehension. That is NOT what he's doing - he just doesn't need the weight. He's a body builder - they're typically stones in the water. I know people like that who can't swim one length of the pool freestyle without scraping the bottom because they sink.

Personally, I like to be able to add air to my drysuit without having to worry about bobbing like a wine cork.

And some of us can do that without a boat anchor wrapped around our waists.

 

[dweeb]

And for that time that you are carrying around an extra 4 pounds, you will need to keep and extra 2 liters of air in your BC just to support that extra weight. Of course as you ascend slightly, that extra air expands making you even more buoyant, possibly leading to the very runaway ascent you were trying to avoid by carrying an extra 4 pounds!

BINGO!

 

[dweeb]

But you do. Instead of using a harness to hold your tank, most people use BC's to make fine-tuning buoyancy easier. Instead of using minimal fins and a dolphin kick, we use full-sized fins or bio fins. Instead of pulling the lever when breathing through a reg becomes difficult, we dive with a SPG. Instead of diving with tables, most dive with computers. Equipment advances = easier diving.

There's a difference between easier and compensating for poor skills.

I agree. We aren't, however, talking about an exact science. An Al 80 is negatively buoyant at the start of a dive and positively buoyant at the end of the dive. So, a diver can deal with this in two different ways. 1 - Work very carefully to avoid an uncontrolled ascent at the end of the dive or 2 - Add a little extra weight into your weight belt and forget about it.

3. Be neutral or negative with an empty tank on your back, and if that means no lead, then it means no lead.

 

[coreypenrose]

Well, we respectfully disagree

As good a place as any to finish our discussion. Nice talking to you.

 

[coreypenrose]

Dweeb, instead of taking all the time to respond to your posts, I'll just tell you the basis for my argument. I usually dive with 34 pounds. For one dive, I dropped down to 30 pounds. During that dive, adding air to my drysuit made me bob up too dramatically - I was just too light. Although I completed the dive safely, and was naturally buoyant at the surface before the dive, I put the weight back on before I returned to the water for my second dive.

Then again, I weigh 285. For me, an extra four pounds is not big deal. For others, they may feel differently. To each his own. Perhaps it’s best to respectfully disagree and leave it at that. Nice talking to you.