Does PADI frown on BP/W over "regular" bc?

[dkatchalov]

I've been defending BP/Ws this entire thread, but let me step to the other side for a minute and say that any time someone calls it a "poodle jacket" I automatically write them off as someone who just likes to think they're cool and talk down to the vactation divers. Not saying that's what you are, I just hate that term.

Also, please don't assume that every jacket style BC out there has all that useless junk on it. There are quite a few that are just nice BCs. I've never seen dump valves anywhere out of the ordinary on a BC, so I don't know what that's all about. I've seen BP/W systems with weights that weren't just a weight belt. And I've never seen a BC with an elevator lever. I know they're out there, but again, its pretty assinine to use that as an example of what you don't like about jackets when those BCs are the exception rather than the rule.

Hey Nick. I use the term "poodle jacket" because I think it's funny. It is not meant to be a derogatory statement towards jacket BCDs.

Whilst I'm firmly in favour of bp/w for any level/type of diver, I think there's nothing wrong with diving a jacket BCD for recreational purposes. I just hate it when people categorically state that one is clearly superior (or inferior) over the other.

Lastly, I pay a lot of attention to other divers' gear in the shop and on the boat. I see a lot of variance in jacket BCDs in the areas I mentioned (dump valves, weights, elevator levers). In my neck of the woods it is not an exception. A bp/w setup is more standardised/generic in my opinion & (limited) experience.

 

[Nick_W]

Hey Nick. I use the term "poodle jacket" because I think it's funny. It is not meant to be a derogatory statement towards jacket BCDs.

I don't really know what anyone's motives are for calling it that. But when someone uses that phrase it just kind of has this ring to it, kind of like the "s" word, if you know what I mean.

Whilst I'm firmly in favour of bp/w for any level/type of diver, I think there's nothing wrong with diving a jacket BCD for recreational purposes. I just hate it when people categorically state that one is clearly superior (or inferior) over the other.

That's pretty much exactly where I stand on it except I also am not a fan of the seperation of "rec" and "tech". For some reason, I don't know why, I just don't like all the labels. Why can't we all just be one big, happy, diving family?

Lastly, I pay a lot of attention to other divers' gear in the shop and on the boat. I see a lot of variance in jacket BCDs in the areas I mentioned (dump valves, weights, elevator levers). In my neck of the woods it is not an exception. A bp/w setup is more standardised/generic in my opinion & (limited) experience.

The dump valves are, for the most part, all the same. There's going to be one on the left shoulder, that's pretty standard. Then some have the right shoulder and then one or two down at the waist. From what I've seen, if there is a waste dump (and only one) it is usually down on the right side. Integrated weight systems are all pretty similar. I've never seen one that was so different that I couldn't figure it out in a nanosecond or two. The elevators, yeah, they're out there but I'm yet to see one in "real life". Maybe people in my neck of the woods just don't like them, I don't know, but I've never run into anyone using a BC with that on there.

And really, you can get some wings that are pretty crazy. I've seen people with BP/W setups that had more crap on them than any jacket I've ever seen.

 

[Philthemann]

Go with the plate. I find there is nothing more comfortable or versitile. You do not have to go tech with it if you dont want. Just cuz most people want padding and fluff doesnt mean that is the only way.

 

[RayJayJr]

Sorry, the "that guy is doing it so it must be the best" argument doesn't work on me.

Listen, I've got no issues with the BP/W, I think I've made that clear. But all I ever tell my students is whatever works best for them is the right gear. I like this, this guy might like that, take a look at it, try it out, if you like it, its right.

And honestly, mentioning the name Jared Jablonski just makes me want to throw my BP/W into a wood chipper.

That 'whatever works best' phrase is a typical canned response of absolutely no intrinsic value what-so-ever. Instructors and LDSs use that as a catch all. The notion of 'what's best' can be a highly subjective idea - so with that said, we'll definite 'what's best' as the following: The safest, most efficient, most reliable, most portable, and versatile setup. Since we're talking about second line equipment, that is, equipment directly linked to the life support equipment, I think this definition is reasonable.

When I go on multi-day backcountry trips - I don't tell people that the equipment they take should be 'whatever works best for you' - I point them to specific non-limiting equipment that deliver specific capabilities - inherently the same equipment that deliver these requirements are often also the pieces of gear that 'work best'.

Why are all the major players and significant authorities on diving, the ones who have consistently been taking it to the next level, and working hard to promote the industry, at all levels, diving BP/W setups, even in warm water rec? Why do these same people encourage recreational divers to adopt BP/W technology? If the technology is so easy to reproduce in the home - than their fiscal interest must be fairly limited. So whats the motivation for the vocalization.

As an instructor, or a divemaster, it can be said that we want what is best for students. Sticking them in vest/style BCDs is not doing them a service in the long-term.

 

[Saltwater Junky]

Rent or borrow the different styles of BC's available before purchasing. Conducting research and acquiring experienced opinions will help narrow the styles you'll want to "test dive." The only opinion that counts is yours.:14: Let your common sense prevail in all matters.

Good planning, dive safe, and have fun.

 

[Nick_W]

That 'whatever works best' phrase is a typical canned response of absolutely no intrinsic value what-so-ever. Instructors and LDSs use that as a catch all. The notion of 'what's best' can be a highly subjective idea - so with that said, we'll definite 'what's best' as the following: The safest, most efficient, most reliable, most portable, and versatile setup. Since we're talking about second line equipment, that is, equipment directly linked to the life support equipment, I think this definition is reasonable.

And the "life support equipment" is a typical canned phrase used by an LDS to try to upsell every new diver that walks through the door looking for regs.

Show me one shred of evidence that a BP/W is safer than every jacket style BC out there. Show me how they're more reliable. At the end of the day, all a BC does is compensate for buoyancy. Will a jacket not do that? I'm sure I could find jackets that are either just as or mor portable than a BP/W and as for versatility, why? If someone is only going to be doing a few vacation dives a year, why do they need the most versatile system out thre?

When I go on multi-day backcountry trips - I don't tell people that the equipment they take should be 'whatever works best for you' - I point them to specific non-limiting equipment that deliver specific capabilities - inherently the same equipment that deliver these requirements are often also the pieces of gear that 'work best'.

If there are multiple types of equipment out there that do the same job, what works best for the person is what they're more comfortable in. I too have spent weeks in the backcountry, both as a Marine and as an avid backpacker. And even there, people like different types of gear. Take your pack for a very basic example. Some like internal frames, some like external, some don't like a frame at all. Its all about what works best for that individual because *shocker* people are all different.

Why are all the major players and significant authorities on diving, the ones who have consistently been taking it to the next level, and working hard to promote the industry, at all levels, diving BP/W setups, even in warm water rec? Why do these same people encourage recreational divers to adopt BP/W technology? If the technology is so easy to reproduce in the home - than their fiscal interest must be fairly limited. So whats the motivation for the vocalization.

Taking it to the next level? What does that even mean?

Let's see, one that you mentioned before with the initials of JJ, why could he possibly be encouraging everyone to adopt the BP/W? Huh, it couldn't possibly be because he makes money off the deal, could it? Or at least when that person buys a Halcyon system, that is. As for the technology being easy to reproduce in their home, have you ever tried cutting stainless? Do you have an RF welder in your living room? Because I don't, so I really couldn't reproduce that "technology" at my home.

As an instructor, or a divemaster, it can be said that we want what is best for students. Sticking them in vest/style BCDs is not doing them a service in the long-term.

This statement is pure BS, there's really no other way to describe it.


I think I have made myself abundantly clear that I am a fan of the BP/W, but to pretend like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread and will make every diver who puts one on the greatest diver in the world is just plain dumb.

 

[Underwater Ogre]

Is it just me?...or is everyone saying the same thing?

 

[pir8]

Sort of in a round about way

 

[seaducer]

Its the same, but different. Kind of like jackets and BP...

 

[MikeFerrara]

As much as I like a bp/w I tend to agree with Nick. I can and have dived all sorts of bc's including jackets and I am certainly not in fear for my life when I do. LOL BTE Nick, what's so great about sliced bread? Don't you own a knife?