Does PADI frown on BP/W over "regular" bc?

[The Kraken]

TS,

Your statement, "The owner & head instructor wants the instructors & staff to use similar set ups for classes because it keeps everyone in the same set up & tends to make it easier & more comfortable for the students to know that everything is the same.", has strong merit, but I can't completely subscribe to the concept that this is the primary concern of the LDS.

The burden of instruction, in both confined water and open water, has to do with the use and manipulation of the regulator, bc inflator and mask.

I think the use of similar gear among the students is more beneficial for the instructor than it is for the student/students. If there is a gear issue, the instructor isn't burdened by having to be knowledgeable of which and what type of bc the student is using.

As far as the student is concerned, for the most part, s/he has little grasp of the complexities, or lack thereof, of the gear in which s/he is training. The student is more in awe of being underwater and breathing.

I could be wrong, have been before and will be again, but I still believe that the use of the gear that the LDS sells is more of a sales mechanism than it is a training or safety issue.

the K

 

[tstormdiver]

Kraken, you could be correct at that, I'm not sure,... as my LDS also sells BP/W (both Recreational & Technical diving is taught there), so either way they can make the sale. When I went through my Dive Con class, we were told that we were expected to use a recreational gear configuration when working with students for the shop. As the shop's rental gear is recreational, & most OW students don't have their own gear & use the rentals, it may be to help the instructors handle the class also. Basically what we, the instructors, AI's & DM's use, is what the lead instructor asks, within the confines of the agencies standards (which the agency does not make any reference for or against BP/W, just a BC). When I work for the shop, I wear recreational equipment & when I train for technical diving or dive for my own leisure, I dive my BP/W & doubles. I am getting better at being able to operate either configuration at any time. It took some adjustment, but is now smoothing out nicely. The only time the BP/W (usually with doubles) is allowed (in fact the lead instructor requires at least 1 set), for staff members, in an AOW class or specialty, is when deep diving is taught for a redundant air supply in case of a malfunction at depth. I feel what, we the staff, wears in the classes (as long as it fulfills standards) is the call of the owner/ lead instructor, it's his business. Personally, I don't have any problems with either configuration.

 

[String]

Slightly more chance of seeing them used by instructors at least here due to the fact that you can't legally teach any open water diving lesson (any agency) without having a redundant air source. This means you have to legally have a pony or twins and therefore higher chance of seeing wings used.

(commercially anyway amateur club instruction is exempt)

 

[halocline]

Some dive shops are very touchy about OW students using anything other than their gear for the class. I've heard stories of OW students showing up with their own mask/fins/snorkle and being charged a $75-100 "inspection fee" because the dive shop was "worried about the safety" of this gear. How about that one!

I don't think PADI has a rule about it, but I do know why lots of instructors like the jacket style BC for OW training. The jackets are as much life preservers as they are dive gear; they keep people upright on the surface and heads/shoulders well out of the water. This is convenient for a group of non-divers in the water getting used to the idea of wearing heavy dive gear. Since you've had some experience diving and are comfortable in the water, a reasonable instructor should let you use the BP/W, especially if he's seen you in the pool with it an there are no issues.

When I took rescue class in my BP/W, I did wish I had a quick release for some of the exercises, particularly ditching gear while towing/rescue breathing. If I ever actually end up working as a DM, I'll probably put a single quick release in the harness.

 

[The Kraken]

I guess my root question is, "What, specifically, precludes the BP/Wing unit from being considered a "recreational" BC?"

the K

 

[Nick_W]

I'm pretty sure you don't see more instructors using a BP/W because they're cheap (the instructors that is). Why would I drop $200-$300 on a BP/W setup (which is what a decent rig is going to cost for an instructor to buy) when I can just get some jacket style BCs for closer to $100 and let the students destroy those?

 

[Lucy's Diver]

A BP/W is more complex because of its modular nature. You actually have to design the one right for your set up and know what everything is; even more so if you're talking an actual SS plate and STA because now you're at a point where you may not need any lead at all. Let's face it, new scuba students should have the ability to quickly ditch lead (or more probably have someone else ditch lead) to get positive. I've seen a new diver have a problem with more wing then she should have had, it tacoed and she could not get the air bubble under a dump valve. She also could not figure out how to put air in the wing at depth, which says a lot.

I think there is a lack of precision in this thread between an actual tech style BPW set up and a unitary wings style BC.

A "real" BC is more idiot proof. All you need to do is plug in one hose and two arms.

 

[Hank658]

TS,
I think you said it very well. My shop sells both jacket and BP/W styles. Most students do use the rental gear, and as Instructors, AIs and DMs it is easier for us to demonstrate to the students how a BC works if it is similar to what they are wearing. If a student expresses interest in a BP/W, I am more than happy to show them how it works and in some cases go in the pool with them.
Once a student completes the OW dives and wishes to look at gear I try to show them the different styles and explain the features and benefits of each, without my personal bias getting in the way.
On OW dives I frequently wear a BP/W since I am not demonstrating skills. Again, at that point, if students ask about the BC I will discuss it with them, as well as asking about what types of diving interest them, how often and where they expect to dive. For someone who only wants to dive on a warm-water vacation once or twice a year a BP/W may be more than what they need. It depends on the individual's preference.

 

[pir8]

Honestly in the pool I use a jackets style because I am demonstrating and thats what the shop I use provides for them. But in OpenH2O I am in my BP/W. I am therefore demonstrating both for them and then they can make up their own minds what they want to purchase. I wouldn't expect people to want to buy anything until after they finish certification.

 

[scubacoots3]

One reason i was given for all students using a jacket style bc is 1) for the instructor to be fimiliar with the gear set-up and 2) in ow class the students are on the surface sometimes more than under the water and for those new to diving a jacket is more stable while bobbing on the surface waiting to go under.