Doing It Wrong...

[sharkmasterbc]

Recently I have noticed more and more talk / discussion about DIR. I think it was a very efficiant and safe way to learn how to dive. The methodology is a very sound one which has been refined and built over years by the Tec/Cave/Wreck divers and is basically an adaptation of the Hogarthian style (correct me if I'm wrong). The problem I am having lately is not so much the style / setup / philosophy but the attitude that is permiating from some people who think it is the "ONLY" way to dive. There seems to be a very headstrong, "cowboy" mentality which I find especially on this board, am I way off base here? The whole thing about "strokes" is kind of extreme, is it not ? I was always under the impression that a self righteous diving attitude can only lead to problems and that we all need to be open to new ideas, new techniques and emerging technology's.
That's my rant for the day what are your thoughts ?

by the way if I dive with a rebreather does that also make me a "stroke" ??


look it's a flounder...

 

[Don Burke]

sharkmasterbc once bubbled... Recently I have noticed more and more talk / discussion about DIR. I think it was a very efficiant and safe way to learn how to dive. The methodology is a very sound one which has been refined and built over years by the Tec/Cave/Wreck divers and is basically an adaptation of the Hogarthian style (correct me if I'm wrong). The problem I am having lately is not so much the style / setup / philosophy but the attitude that is permiating from some people who think it is the "ONLY" way to dive. There seems to be a very headstrong, "cowboy" mentality which I find especially on this board, am I way off base here? The whole thing about "strokes" is kind of extreme, is it not ? I was always under the impression that a self righteous diving attitude can only lead to problems and that we all need to be open to new ideas, new techniques and emerging technology's.
That's my rant for the day what are your thoughts ?

by the way if I dive with a rebreather does that also make me a "stroke" ??


look it's a flounder...

How about giving some names instead of vague references to "some people"?

 

[sharkmasterbc]

I purposly did not use names...if I did don't you think it would just turn into a mud slinging match ??

All I was looking for was some others opinions on the subject.

so long and thanks for all the fish...

 

[MechDiver]

This is so old its not even a good troll anymore.

Borriiinnnngggggg

 

[jbd]

was coined by GI3 many years ago. Somewhere here on scuba board there is a link to an article by GI3 in which you can get his definition of the term stroke. If you read that definition with a completely clear and unbiased mind I think you will find that it is an apt, although somewhat derisive, term describing people who have an unsafe attitude towards diving. These people do exist regardless of training, gear configuration or place of birth.

My advice is to listen quietly and clearly to the message and reasoning behind what is called DIR and learn from it. All the rest is just baying at the moon by parties on both sides.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Well said...tech diving got where it is because people broke with tradition and tried new things. If you stop doing that, then diving stops growing and developing.

I agree with the idea of analyzing accidents and seeing what went wrong and what could have been different and then modifying your configuration or techniques accordingly.

But I get mildly concerned when people start thinking that we are now started down the right path and consequently thinking or implying that there are no other "right" paths.

I get seriously concerned when a newbie DIR fanatic starts ranting about the diving equivalent of the one true way because some one told him or her learned it in a course. Going hard core DIR is appealing to some divers I suspect as it gives them instant credibility and to some degree instant acceptance just for configuring gear a certain way regardles sof actual real world out side the class experience.

I have never been a big fan of authoritaian arguments as a way of knowing and much prefer a more balanced logical and scientific approach. DIR can be like religeon....some people draw a lot of comfort and conficence from the authoritarianism of it, but often these same people derive no real wisdom from it, and that makes for both a bad christian and a dangerous diver - DIR or not.

However in my experience, 90% of the DIR divers are not like that and are not prone to being outright intolerant of others. It's the remaining 10% that are a pain and that may well drive away other potential DIR divers. That 10% are the folks the other DIR types need to deal with.

 

[sharkmasterbc]

Thanks for the valid input DA, I'm definetly feeling the same way these days, you said it much more elequantly than I.

 

[Wingtip]

DA Aquamaster once bubbled...
Well said...tech diving got where it is because people broke with tradition and tried new things. If you stop doing that, then diving stops growing and developing.

I agree with the idea of analyzing accidents and seeing what went wrong and what could have been different and then modifying your configuration or techniques accordingly.

You lose me here, DIR is a holistic system that is constantly being evaluated and questioned. Evolving if you will.

 

[Uncle Pug]

OK.. this is an old rehash of the "Sniff, a DIR guy called me a stroke and hurt my feelings." That is old... I agree Mech... not even a good troll these days.

Shoot.... I thought this was going to be a thread about pony bottles & split fins.

 

[MHK]

DA Aquamaster once bubbled...
I have never been a big fan of authoritaian arguments as a way of knowing and much prefer a more balanced logical and scientific approach. DIR can be like religeon....some people draw a lot of comfort and conficence from the authoritarianism of it, but often these same people derive no real wisdom from it, and that makes for both a bad christian and a dangerous diver - DIR or not.

I may regret posting to this thread since my initial thinking is that it's for troll purposes only, however DA you make a point here that I'd like to ask you to consider from a different point of view, forget any pre-dispositions and/or any pre-concieved notions and I'd like to follow up on your religion analogy.

Consider DIR from the standpoint that we aren't trying to tell you how to dive, consider that we are telling you how we dive. Now further consider that many invect their personal diving preferences into what is essentially DIR which then alters one of the core beliefs of DIR which is consistency amongst the team to reduce confusion in emergency situations.

To follow up on your religion analogy, it would be like me going to the Pope and saying " I dig the whole Catholic thing, but I think you should allow abortions" or going into synagogue telling the Rabbi that " I dig the whole Jewish thing, but I believe in Jesus Christ"

In other words, these are core beliefs of our diving ideology, and without trying to be offensive about it, I don't care if you like them or not, I don't care if you follow them or not, I'm just telling you how we approach it and we do believe it comes from a standpoint of balance, logic and sound reasoning.. Bear in mind somewhere along the line there became this misconception that we need to tailor our message to be more inclusive and then the debate starts from there. I think it's important to understand that our goal isn't to be inclusive at the expense of sacraficing core beliefs.. Once you consider that as the starting point from our perspective then perhaps you'll more fully understand our reluctance to modify or compromise on our core beliefs. Now that being said, I agree that just because we want to remian consistent doesn't mean that we need to do so in an insulting fashion.. I see that as two seperate conversations, whereas it's been my experience that those two concepts aften times get comingled into one conversation..

Hope that helps..

Later