Etiquette of “NO, you are not diving with us”

[RonFrank]

I did a couple dives where I was paired with a couple in the Keys. The DM did not really give them much choice, there were only three of us on the boat . They were fine with the decision, and so was I.

We had two enjoyable dives together. However the guy was sucking down an AL80 in 45 minutes at 30fsw. That was a bit annoying. So while my insta-buddies turned out to be easy to dive with, and we enjoyed diving with one another, the air consumption cost about 30 minutes of BT.

NP, but the disadvantages of diving single as an insta-buddy are a two way street. One reason why I REALLY enjoy SB. When I dived WPB and Jupiter, I knew several divers on each trip, and diving was more enjoyable.

 

[PerroneFord]

It's all in the delivery, mate. The best DIR divers are assertive but unpretentious, direct but respectful. Choose to be one of those now before it's too late.

It's not hate, it's a learning opportunity. I guess Dave and I have both been around long enough to see the gang-war style macho posturing in the DIR discussions of old. The way you delivered your first post just sounded a little too.... familiar.... to me.

R..

Hmm,

My apologies for that. As I stated, I am not a DIR diver and really have no intentions to come across that way. I guess from my comments people assumed I was, or assumed that I was speaking in the first person when I mentioned that DIR divers would have a built-in excuse. As I've said, I wasn't including myself in that example.

Sorry about the poor delivery.

 

[Diver0001]

Sorry about the poor delivery.

I understand. I think we've all said things that came across differently than we meant them :34:

R..

 

[piikki]

>>I did a couple dives where I was paired with a couple in the Keys. The DM did not really give them much choice, there were only three of us on the boat<<

Oh no, I was just waiting in terror to hear this.

>>They were fine with the decision, and so was I.<<

What if they weren't? You were gonna be forced on solo? DM go in with you? These are the worst pressure spots. As if I didn't already have charter phobias.

 

[Barracuda2]

I've read most of the comments here and I didn't see my $.02 worth so here it is. In the few times I've run into this situation, we allowed the add-on diver to began the dive with us. By simply observing the guy gearing up, scoping out his gear, will reveal much. Even if he shows a little nervousness, or puts his BC on so that when he puts on the reg, the knob hits him in the back of the head and he has to reverse the BC position, I'll still give him the benefit. Entering the water and starting the dive is the real microcope and I feel it's easy to assess whether this diver can hack it. How does he handle himself in the water?: "butterfly arms"? almost a steady stream of exhaust bubbles? can't get down or sinks like a rock? "wide eyed" as you ask him if he's OK? Trying to keep up with the group in an almost vertical position? constantly adjusting air in his BC? Looking at you with a mask half full of water? We would take the add-on diver in 25 ft of water and just "play" around and observe him. I gaurantee you that if you observe a diver doing all, some, or a portion of the above characteristics, you will have the smarts and courage to thumbs up and abort the dive. I've been there and done that and it's not difficult to tell the guy to get back on the dock, shore, or boat. Most of the time in my experience, the add-on diver proved to be competant and joined us for a good dive. This is why on most live aboards, the first dive of the week is sans cameras because the DM's simply want to observe how their charges for the week handle themselves in the water.
My $.02
Barracuda2

 

[scububa]

Every dive is a learning experience, isn't it?

Seems like this is a great educational opportunity. Two big lessons - How to form up a team and How to execute a team.

I think next time you will have better skills at doing both. Canned answers normally don't work over very many situations. Communications are the corner stone of a good dive. If you aren't able to communicate on the surface (dive planning) then you are likely going to have the same or worse problems underwater. The fact that he backed away on the surface was only repeated underwater.

As I was coming along with my earliest dive learning, I had gotten more comfortable and confident with myself and gear. Was out on a boat where the main instructor was working with refining some basic skills with my kids. He ask if I'd like to buddy up with a newer, but certified diver. It was a site I was familiar with and we had a mutually agreed dive objective, so I said sure. Dive was going very well and my buddy holds up his new whiz-bang AI computer. I look at it. Very neat, big OK sign. A minute later, he holds it up again...VERY neat, lots of colors and numbers, MUST be cool, BIG OK sign. Continue dive...he nearly rams the thing up under my mask...FINALLY I understand he is showing me he has hit his air turn point. I am thinking, no low air sign, no "T"urn sign, no I've got 1xxx what have you got? He is thinking, how can I show this idiot any more clearly how much air I have? We were both talking but we were NOT communicating. Great educational opportunity #23.

 

[piikki]

>>Seems like this is a great educational opportunity. Two big lessons - How to form up a team and How to execute a team.<<

Oh yeah, I would have appreciated a class in geometry instead of calculus at this point though

>>I think next time you will have better skills at doing both. Canned answers normally don't work over very many situations. Communications are the corner stone of a good dive. If you aren't able to communicate on the surface (dive planning) then you are likely going to have the same or worse problems underwater. The fact that he backed away on the surface was only repeated underwater.<<

You are so very right on that. The (mis)communications were the root of the problem. Us not knowing what to say anymore, him being evasive, and then feeling like getting sucked into something we coulnd’t quite escape without being nasty. We certainly hope we are more aware next time – and more assertive about our right to dive safely too.

Reading Barracuda2’s post gave me some hope. Buddy and I were looking at each other and wondering if our inexperience was making us too rigid. Several times I thought that give the guy the benefit of doubt… like not all of us have great balance, I struggle getting my fins on sometimes - and how often have I struggled descending etc. We have a lot of tolerance for nervousness and little mishaps. I can chew gum and talk at the same time but sometimes when involved in some cool tale, I try to unscrew my DIN with air still on. I’ve had my instructor jump in the pool without weights etc so blibs aren’t always sign of lameness. Then again trouble sequences should start playing the alarm on the back of the mind and get the mouth open.

Examples:
>>"wide eyed" as you ask him if he's OK? Trying to keep up with the group in an almost vertical position? constantly adjusting air in his BC? Looking at you with a mask half full of water?<<

Wide eyed as: something doesn’t look right but he signs ok and go ahead. Miscommunication is even more confusing than staring or panic look. I wish I could have seen his eyes but in that darkness those red lenses he had were pretty impossible to see through. And anyway, every time I got closer he’d back off. He had severe people allergy.

>>Most of the time in my experience, the add-on diver proved to be competant and joined us for a good dive.<<

I’ll live in hope but I think for a while I’ll be sticking to my buddy, and give a suspicious glance at everyone EVERYONE

 

[Atticus]

Please take the following in the constructive light it's intended:

1. You already know that you should be assertive if you don't want to accept responsibility for someone elses life. Once you say yes, you have a responsibility to safeguard that persons life by carrying out your training to the best of your ability.

2. You and your buddy should work on buddy skills. Your buddy as the 'leader' had a responsibility to set the pace for the slowest person in the pack. She ditched you when you stopped - in this case it was because your third buddy had a problem. Next time it might be because you have a problem. I'd talk to her about it.

3. If someone is in trouble they become the priority. I would not have swam away from the guy when he indicated trouble. A better option is to work directly with him to resolve the problem and/or to ascend with him to the surface. Your buddy seperated herself from the team by swimming away (continuing forward without checking things out on a continuous basis). She then may well need to perform a lost buddy drill which will shortly place her on the surface as well.

As to ways to say no - "I will not take responsibility for accepting you as a dive buddy. If you want to dive solo that's your business."

 

[del_mo]

Taking it another step, you quickly realize your new buddy is a risk and you thumb the dive. But you and your primary buddy still have 2800 psi n your tanks. Any reason why you can't continue your dive after you deliver the third buddy safely.

 

[piikki]

>>Please take the following in the constructive light it's intended:<<

There is nothing in what you said that upsets me. I decided to share the story after the initial shock because I was bewildered with own weakness and stupidity, and wanted to hear how others cope with peer pressure. I was acutely aware that some adjustment is needed, and I don’t think anybody has come anywhere close to how we phrased it in post-dive debriefing (I don’t mean yelling at each other but being amazed at the sum-idiocy we managed to present in a course of 30 minutes).

>>2. You and your buddy should work on buddy skills. Your buddy as the 'leader' had a responsibility to set the pace for the slowest person in the pack. She ditched you when you stopped - in this case it was because your third buddy had a problem. Next time it might be because you have a problem. I'd talk to her about it.<<

Believe me, she received wrath about this. We’ve talked and talked. However, I admit that I could have made the same mistake, so there is no reason to put the blame on her. I understand the reasoning but now I also understand you might not always have the luxury of making the situation ‘ideal’ for dealing with a problem. One might have to multitask and still be able to talk someone down right there and then.

3. If someone is in trouble they become the priority. I would not have swam away from the guy when he indicated trouble. Your buddy seperated herself from the team by swimming away (continuing forward without checking things out on a continuous basis).

I think it is a good reminder, like someone else said too, not to leave anyone who isn’t maybe ‘yet’ panicking but could any moment… Thinking back I’d probably leave him again if he indicated a plan, wasn’t acting like a lunatic, and I thought had understood that I said wait (next time I’d try to get that in writing). When MY buddy - to whom I had said YES I am diving with you today - vanished from my sights, there was no doubt in my mind where my ultimate responsibility lied. I was going to go check she didn’t eg conk her head on the sunken boat or something because we’d been diving head turned backwards checking on this guy. I knew she’d come back because she would not leave me if things were ok... but it took 15 secs too long, I knew she should have been back to check on me by then. Not to make it sound like this was so thought through version – I dashed after her because there was this pang of angst that she’s gone too long and I need to get her to join us. I sure don't like not knowing what the heck is going on.

Things happen awfully fast in poor viz, I honestly did not think this slow a guy could slip anywhere but boy was I wrong. Whatever moral bashing I am heading for, there is no doubt in my mind which way this Sophie’s Choice would have gone if I could only pick one to check out. To me not seeing my buddy is always a possible emergency because we have agreed not to vanish from each others at this point of our 'careers'