For those considering the PADI Deep Diver speciality...

[Randy43068]

Oh yes there is ... I have occasionally run into someone who thought they could pay for my class, show up, not put any effort into it, and collect the C-card when it was over.

Most times, they do fine once we reset expectations. On two occasions I gave them their money back and suggested I wasn't the instructor for them.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Will you be my instructor?

 

[Mike Boswell]

Some criticisms seem to me like parents criticizing Kindergarten because they don't cover Trigonometry. What tends to be overlooked in these discussions is that PADI and other agencies DO have a full and complete diving curriculum covering every aspect of diving, but by necessity they have ORGANIZED their learning program in ways that some might disagree with.

Having recently taken the PADI courses up through Master Diver, I can honestly say that overall I am impressed by the course design and material, training aids, and instruction. In the Deep Diver course, some elements that I would have liked (gas management, decompression) were not covered, and the Deep Diver manual explains (Page 9) that more advanced topics, beyond recreational diving, are covered in the DSAT Tec Deep Diver Course.

Fair enough: You want more knowledge, take the next course.

 

[OldNSalty]

I think that MOST diving courses beyond OW are lacking and even OW is full of 'duh' information. I understand the need for a good OW course, and I understand teh need for a good instructor but everything in between is questionable to me.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

In the Deep Diver course, some elements that I would have liked (gas management, decompression) were not covered,

To my concern, these are the two most important topics to cover in a Deep Diver course. That's like selling someone a meal and leaving out the main entree.

and the Deep Diver manual explains (Page 9) that more advanced topics, beyond recreational diving, are covered in the DSAT Tec Deep Diver Course.

Fair enough: You want more knowledge, take the next course.

I wouldn't have an issue with that except that they're leaving out the stuff you need to dive safely after THIS course!

PADI seems to believe that you don't need to understand much about gas management until you get into "Tech" diving. The number of divers I have known who died at the recreational level because they went deep and ran out of air suggests otherwise.

There shouldn't be any "take the next course" about it. The Deep Diver specialty certifies divers to go to the edge of recreational depth limits ... which introduces a whole gamut of additional risks. If you are going to be certifying people to go this deep, you need to be giving them the requisite knowledge and skills to be doing it safely.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Druid]

This is unfortunate. The organization should design a good course to start with so the Instructor shouldn't have to go "above and beyond" just to insure that the student gets what he pays for. The student shouldn't have to hunt for a good Instructor. They all should be good Instructors. I guess gone are the days that an certification agencies name meant something. Hopefully this will change.

I don't think this will change for as long as there are instructors who will work for nothing. Cheap doesn't always mean poor quality, but you can bet that if a dive school were paying £250 a day to instructors they would be a sight more selective about who they employed.

 

[Mike Boswell]

To my concern, these are the two most important topics to cover in a Deep Diver course. That's like selling someone a meal and leaving out the main entree.

I wouldn't have an issue with that except that they're leaving out the stuff you need to dive safely after THIS course!

PADI seems to believe that you don't need to understand much about gas management until you get into "Tech" diving. The number of divers I have known who died at the recreational level because they went deep and ran out of air suggests otherwise.

There shouldn't be any "take the next course" about it. The Deep Diver specialty certifies divers to go to the edge of recreational depth limits ... which introduces a whole gamut of additional risks. If you are going to be certifying people to go this deep, you need to be giving them the requisite knowledge and skills to be doing it safely.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well, the FIRST time I got certified, I learned physics and gas management and decompression, so as I said, I was disappointed that they later dropped that "technical" stuff. I suppose this happened when they decided to divide the dive world into Rec and Tec and set the depth limit at 130'.

I don't know how many divers went deep and ran out of air, but I do know that if you don't watch your instruments it will happen, at any depth, with or without gas planning. PADI's deep diver course stresses the need to closely monitor your air pressure when diving deep.

 

[bane51031]

Not trying too toot my own horn but, I truely try to challenge my students especially in the courses I took that I felt were lacking i.e. my Rescue diver course. I feel my students have a good time in a safe learning enviroment but, when they are done with a course they not only learned a course but, lived it.
I have assisted with instructors that just went through the motions and I swore too myself never to fall in that rut, even though some of the material maybe lacking I make sure to fill in the gaps as a good instructor should.
Anything less would be a failure on my part...

 

[Steve50]

Yes..

 

[oddible]

Well module 5 in the PADI OW manual is about 90% marketing crap - "go places, meet people, do things!"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well, the FIRST time I got certified, I learned physics and gas management and decompression, so as I said, I was disappointed that they later dropped that "technical" stuff. I suppose this happened when they decided to divide the dive world into Rec and Tec and set the depth limit at 130'.

There is nothing "Tec" about gas management ... anyone with 4th grade arithmetic skills can do it. The first ... most important ... step is recognizing that you should.

I don't know how many divers went deep and ran out of air, but I do know that if you don't watch your instruments it will happen, at any depth, with or without gas planning. PADI's deep diver course stresses the need to closely monitor your air pressure when diving deep.

Watching your gauges is all well and good ... but you have to know what you're watching for. Someone who doesn't understand the simple concept of rock bottom will never know when they reach it ... all they'll be doing is making an uneducated guess as to how much gas is enough. Throw in a bit of narcosis, some interesting critters to take your mind off your gauges for a few minutes, a dive buddy who maybe isn't paying as much attention as they should, or that interesting little fishing boat that's just a little deeper than you planned to go ... and suddenly you find yourself at 100+ feet with a gauge that's into the red zone.

What usually gets most new deep divers in trouble is the realization of how fast your gauge goes down at those deeper depths ... this is ESPECIALLY true of the diver who went straight from OW to AOW, is still struggling with the basics of trim and buoyancy control, and who is at 130 fsw with an AL80 on their back.

The most important thing any diver can learn before they start doing those 100+ foot dives is how to calculate how much gas they need to take with them ... and why they need to determine that BEFORE they get in the water.

One of the exercises I have my students do in AOW is ... before we ever go on the deep dive ... I hand them a dive plan and they have to calculate how much gas they'll need to do that dive. You'd be surprised how often they come back and tell me their tank isn't big enough.

That's a valuable lesson right there ... even if they decide to never do that calculation again ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)