For most, this is nowhere near AOW..
Gilboa Scuba Patrol??
- Thread starter diveski01
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
)..I'll back you up...
My buoyancy is average, my trim needs so much work I don't even know where to start, but I've never been in the water and assumed a bottom was there in case I needed to work something out (obviously excluding pool work). I guess I'm just not fully versed in the way most people dive, or get started diving, or something.....
R
R
chrpai
Contributor
Since I've never been, someone tell me what he expects for a Deep Dive Plan?
Does he require "Deep Diver" instead of "AOW" ?? Does he require a log book showing X numbers of dives? Require redundant air supply? Require Drysuit not wet? Require checkout dive?
Before I get paranoid about someone trying to tell me how to do my dive, just what level of micromanagement should I expect if I was to visit that quarry.
Does he require "Deep Diver" instead of "AOW" ?? Does he require a log book showing X numbers of dives? Require redundant air supply? Require Drysuit not wet? Require checkout dive?
Before I get paranoid about someone trying to tell me how to do my dive, just what level of micromanagement should I expect if I was to visit that quarry.
good question.
First of all the instructor always needs to be concerned because if you fail to avoid trouble you are responsible for controling it. A bottom at least limits the depth of a student with a problem.
Second, I think it's best not to worry about doing a deep dive until one learns to dive shallow. That means, as Don said, good buoyancy control, good trim, good problem management skills and good buddy skills.
The AOW deep dive is often a divers first exposur to being deep. No need to through too many complications (like no visual reference) into the equation too fast. Being without any reference can cause an experienced diver to momentarily become disoriented. That isn't really a big deal but for some one less prepared it can be catastrophic and the instructor may have a much harder time controling the situation.
I feel the dive I described gives sudents a chance to acclimate and me time to evaluate. After that I do take that little cruize over the wall with some students.
I have had several students perform very well at 70 ft just past the tubes (where they had a bottom to follow) who became nervous once we ventured out over the wall. That can be a scary thing for some (especially with the cold and the dark) and I think if I didn't do it the way I do I would be more famous now (if you know what I mean)
Now, in an Advanced Nitrox class it's a requirement that the student be able to function midwater and hold depth even when doing things like deploying a lift bag.
In my not always so humble opinion and to steel some one elses terminology, taking students with less than impressive skills into the deep nothingness off the deep dock is nothing less that blatantly farm animal stupid.
While I would not like any plan installed to prevent us from ourselves I certainly would respect any plan installed by the property owner. I live too far away to ever dive this location but if something similar were to happen here I would respect the wishes of the owner.
On the other hand if it become a place where diving wasn't fun anymore then I'd dive someplace else.
I'm sure I would not appreciate a dive patrol under any circumstances. Reading the rules, signing an agreement to obey the rules and then obeying them is enough in my book. But scuba police is off the wall. I'm certain I wouldn't be interested in diving such a location myself.
On the other hand if it become a place where diving wasn't fun anymore then I'd dive someplace else.
I'm sure I would not appreciate a dive patrol under any circumstances. Reading the rules, signing an agreement to obey the rules and then obeying them is enough in my book. But scuba police is off the wall. I'm certain I wouldn't be interested in diving such a location myself.
chrpai
Hey, don't get paranoid about the micro-management because there isn't any. If you are in "our neck of the woods" you should stop in for a dive. As far as quarry diving goes, it is one of the best in the Mid-west.
I don't have a "deep dive plan" in front of me but going off memory... he want's to know what your skill level is, what type of equipment you have,what kind of redundancy you have,lights, can you even fill out a "deep dive plan" with appropriate stops and times, etc. At that point he likes to have a conversation with you going over the hazards and making sure you are aware of what you are about to embark upon. Mike is very respectful during this conversation and just wants to make sure that everyone is aware of what can happen.
It isn't an interrogation as it may come across in this medium.
Hope that helps... and you should check it out if you are in the area...
Don
Hey, don't get paranoid about the micro-management because there isn't any. If you are in "our neck of the woods" you should stop in for a dive. As far as quarry diving goes, it is one of the best in the Mid-west.
I don't have a "deep dive plan" in front of me but going off memory... he want's to know what your skill level is, what type of equipment you have,what kind of redundancy you have,lights, can you even fill out a "deep dive plan" with appropriate stops and times, etc. At that point he likes to have a conversation with you going over the hazards and making sure you are aware of what you are about to embark upon. Mike is very respectful during this conversation and just wants to make sure that everyone is aware of what can happen.
It isn't an interrogation as it may come across in this medium.
Hope that helps... and you should check it out if you are in the area...
Don
You need to be at least AOW certified and have your written plan (he provides the form) approved. I don't remember but there might even be a copy of the dive plan form on the web site.
Which normally doesn't count for jack squat, there is no reason to take an AOW class over the wall.
There is no solid bottom if fit should hit the shan. You can hit 80+ on the shallow side by the tubes and never have a bottom more than 8 feet deeper than your current depth. It is not that long of a trek to the tubes....if someone is sucking their tank that fast, they don't need to be going there in the first place.
Frankly I think mike should not allow classes at AOW or below to even go over to the deep dock. Sure...it would be hard to police if someone wanted to get in on the shallow side and cross-over, but hey...from that point, why not go to the tubes?
I think he should make anyone who is on the deep side sign waivers that state they have the proper equipment, and if they don't they have no business being there.
From my personal experience, I have been in from the deep side 1 time. We contemplated taking the AOW class over there. Yes, we only had a single AL80, and we were in wetsuits, etc. I am not going back over there without more equipment. HEre is my recollection of the dive....We descended down the ladder, saw the platform, and we intentionally kept going....why...to see 1) where the bottom was, 2) what the hell it would be like to have to chase a student who missed the platform, 3) how cold it was at depth.
Well, at about 90 feet, I got a little (o.k. probably a lot) narced. I signalled to my buddy that we needed to clow down, and I needed to calm down. We both checked our gauges, we both signalled we were o.k...and we continued down to about 100'. I thumbed the dive b/c I could tell I was hammered...it was dark, it was cold, and I was all fuzzy feeling. And, BTW, we were on EANx 32 for the fact we were slated to do 4 dives that day with students...so the narced slam would be worse on air I imagine. I decided I didn;t want to have a free-flow at that point in time, and we headed back up, stopped at 15' for 3 minutes....went back to the instructor and said "NO FU**ING WAY!!!"
There is just too much risk...I felt if I was freaked and narced, and have been to 80+ a few times on the shallow side, what the hell would a student do at that depth? No telling really....what would one of them do if there was a problem....who knows...but I don;t want to have to be the one who is hammered and trying to resolve the issue at hand....
I have no desire to go back over the wall without more exposure protection, a redundant set-up and a little more planning. You are going to have a hard time telling me that there is a good reason to take BOW divers on the deep-side of the wall...I don't care if their in a class, they are still BOW divers and that is that.
O.K...my opinion has been stated.
There is no solid bottom if fit should hit the shan. You can hit 80+ on the shallow side by the tubes and never have a bottom more than 8 feet deeper than your current depth. It is not that long of a trek to the tubes....if someone is sucking their tank that fast, they don't need to be going there in the first place.
Frankly I think mike should not allow classes at AOW or below to even go over to the deep dock. Sure...it would be hard to police if someone wanted to get in on the shallow side and cross-over, but hey...from that point, why not go to the tubes?
I think he should make anyone who is on the deep side sign waivers that state they have the proper equipment, and if they don't they have no business being there.
From my personal experience, I have been in from the deep side 1 time. We contemplated taking the AOW class over there. Yes, we only had a single AL80, and we were in wetsuits, etc. I am not going back over there without more equipment. HEre is my recollection of the dive....We descended down the ladder, saw the platform, and we intentionally kept going....why...to see 1) where the bottom was, 2) what the hell it would be like to have to chase a student who missed the platform, 3) how cold it was at depth.
Well, at about 90 feet, I got a little (o.k. probably a lot) narced. I signalled to my buddy that we needed to clow down, and I needed to calm down. We both checked our gauges, we both signalled we were o.k...and we continued down to about 100'. I thumbed the dive b/c I could tell I was hammered...it was dark, it was cold, and I was all fuzzy feeling. And, BTW, we were on EANx 32 for the fact we were slated to do 4 dives that day with students...so the narced slam would be worse on air I imagine. I decided I didn;t want to have a free-flow at that point in time, and we headed back up, stopped at 15' for 3 minutes....went back to the instructor and said "NO FU**ING WAY!!!"
There is just too much risk...I felt if I was freaked and narced, and have been to 80+ a few times on the shallow side, what the hell would a student do at that depth? No telling really....what would one of them do if there was a problem....who knows...but I don;t want to have to be the one who is hammered and trying to resolve the issue at hand....
I have no desire to go back over the wall without more exposure protection, a redundant set-up and a little more planning. You are going to have a hard time telling me that there is a good reason to take BOW divers on the deep-side of the wall...I don't care if their in a class, they are still BOW divers and that is that.
O.K...my opinion has been stated.
True for some, not true for others IMO. It's different for everyone. I've taught people who got it on OW dive two and others who take much, much longer.
On the scuba patrol thing i fall into the personal accountability group who think its a bad idea. We already have enough pompous arses telling us what is right and what is wrong in other aspects of life. I could care less since i probably will never dive Gilboa but don't think we need Gilboa to be added to the list. Now if the owner of Gilboa chose to set up a scuba patrol, he would be well within his rights to do so.
One question though. If there was a scuba patrol, i wonder who would patrol the patrol to insure the patroling was done in a fair and proper manner. And who decides what " fair and proper" is?
Its a nice idea in concept but full of potential pitfalls. I might just be old school but don't see the problem with people taking responsibility for themselves.:blah:
Similar threads
