GUE Membership

[MikeFerrara]

No decompression method that we know of is perfect. Nobody knows that much and if they say they do they are not to be trusted. If the diver was bent following their procedures the information is usefull.

On the other hand if the diver was not following their procedures on an expedition it may indicates a real breakdown in the system that is supposed to avoid that. When you put yourself in the limelight (and if anyone has they have) you are under the microscope. IMO, They have willingly given up any right to privacy when it comes to their methods and procedures. Why? because they have openly claimed that they know more and do it right. Because of their claims there are divers who have abandoned more proven methods in favor of theirs. They should get the whole story. They come out and say that all the deco theory we have learned from others is total nonsense. If they get bent then maybe not.



DD,
As far as what I have read...They told us not to do bounce dives way back in my own OW class.

 

[O-ring]

...I have to agree wholeheartedly with this statement.

On the other hand if the diver was not following their procedures on an expedition it may indicates a real breakdown in the system that is supposed to avoid that. When you put yourself in the limelight (and if anyone has they have) you are under the microscope. IMO, They have willingly given up any right to privacy when it comes to their methods and procedures. Why? because they have openly claimed that they know more and do it right. Because of their claims there are divers who have abandoned more proven methods in favor of theirs. They should get the whole story. They come out and say that all the deco theory we have learned from others is total nonsense. If they get bent then maybe not.

Good words, Mike..

 

[TCDiver1]

It seems, from what i'm reading here, that GUE has been less than willing to divulge details of what actually happened on this incident. I apologize in advance if thats not true since this thread is all i've personally read about this incident.

With that said i gotta agree with Mike, the who is unimportant. The answers to what, how & where is important and very hard to obtain useful data for further study and understanding of DCS. If GUE has passed all that info. on then my opinion of them goes up. If they didn't then, IMO, they are apparently not as serious about pushing for safe diving as they claim to be.

I hear and read all the time on this board that arrogance is not in the GUE/DIR code and is just the normal wacked minority you get with any group. IMO it would be very selfish and arrogant to not share this info for futher study. It could help the diving community as a whole which is what i thought GUE was all about.

 

[MikeFerrara]

A little more...

I'm not trying to insult anyone and I opologize if I was a little gruff with DD.

This decompression stuff is not simple or clear cut. There have been many studies and theories abound. The problem is many of the theories conflict. When you get right down to it YOU decide what methods you have confidence in and use them. If you get bent you were wrong. Good deco is deco that works.

At the risk of being flame (like that has ever bothered me) the IANTD "Technical Diving Encyclopedia" sumerises and lists more studies than I have ever seen mentioned in one place. The book presents theory and counter theory and their sources. While they admit much of it is just theory they use the info to derive some basic do's and don'ts of decompression. I don't care much for the book as a text but it has some really good info in it when it comes to phisiology and decompression.

Anyone interested in these kinds of dives really needs to look at all this stuff. Don't just read one book and don't listen to just one person.

Deep stops are looking good. Taking advantage of the O2 window is SOP. Models like VPM and RGBM show promis. Then there are other things being presented as fact that seem pretty far fetched with little or no scientific validation and in some cases just the oposit.

The same is true for other aspects of diving.

 

[TCDiver1]

Mike,

How about the infinite variable? The human body. Great advances have been made in understanding the causes of DCS in the last 30 years but like medicine our understanding of the human body and how it react to certain things is still rudimentary.

People don't like to hear things like that but it's very true.

Valid hard data and study of same will be the only way to find that silver bullet if there is one.

 

[O-ring]

How about the infinite variable? The human body. Great advances have been made in understanding the causes of DCS in the last 30 years but like medicine our understanding of the human body and how it react to certain things is still rudimentary.

People don't like to hear things like that but it's very true.

I think that is one of the dangers with following WKPP/GUE deco "to the letter". If you have ever met those guys, chances are they are in much better shape than you are. Jarrod doesn't have an ounce of fat on him and George practically lives in the gym. These are not your "typical" diver specimens.

 

[TCDiver1]

O-ring once bubbled...

I think that is one of the dangers with following WKPP/GUE deco "to the letter". If you have ever met those guys, chances are they are in much better shape than you are. Jarrod doesn't have an ounce of fat on him and George practically lives in the gym. These are not your "typical" diver specimens.

Yup, and i wish i was in that good of shape but hey, i'm working on it.:bonk:

Seriously, unfortunately it's not reasonable to expect that level of fitness in the average diver. That is the problem with the Navy tables. They built the tables using young, relatively fit divers.

Aging, is a slow, gradual shunting process by itself. How's that for a PC way to say it's easy to put on a few pounds and corrode your arteries a little each year?

 

[MikeFerrara]

gedunk once bubbled...
Mike,

How about the infinite variable? The human body. Great advances have been made in understanding the causes of DCS in the last 30 years but like medicine our understanding of the human body and how it react to certain things is still rudimentary.

People don't like to hear things like that but it's very true.

Valid hard data and study of same will be the only way to find that silver bullet if there is one.

Good point. I don't think there is a silver bullet. I think there are a bunch of silver bullets and if you line them up just right your ok. If you have too many out of place you get what's behind door number three.

 

[detroit diver]

These are the folks actually using and interpreting the data. It cerainly is good enough for me.


I have found all the members of the WKPP and GUE to be more than helpful and honest about past decompression concerns. We have been working on our decompression data collection and reporting system for a long time.
The inputs from the members regarding ALL aspects of their past medical histories have made this effort exceptionally easy.


Once in place and approved by the Duke IRB, all dives done in the WKP will be reported as de-identified outcome data. I would feel like I have wasted an incredible amount of time, energy, and resources if anyone was trying to cover anything up.


Todd is 100% correct about the gossip. It serves no useful purpose.


Take care,
G


Gene Hobbs, CHT
Medical Simulation Coordinator
Human Simulation and Patient Safety Center
Center for Hyperbaric Medicine and
Environmental Physiology
DUMC Box 3437
Durham, NC 27710
919/684.3661 Lab
919/970.1311 Pager

 

[O-ring]

detroit diver once bubbled...
These are the folks actually using and interpreting the data. It cerainly is good enough for me.


I have found all the members of the WKPP and GUE to be more than helpful and honest about past decompression concerns. We have been working on our decompression data collection and reporting system for a long time.
The inputs from the members regarding ALL aspects of their past medical histories have made this effort exceptionally easy.


Once in place and approved by the Duke IRB, all dives done in the WKP will be reported as de-identified outcome data. I would feel like I have wasted an incredible amount of time, energy, and resources if anyone was trying to cover anything up.


Todd is 100% correct about the gossip. It serves no useful purpose.[/b]

Yeah, I met Hobbs once and he seemed like a really good guy...maybe chickdiver will come into this thread and a couple of others and straighten us out...

:hiding: