Headway made

[Mossman]

No wonder you are so against it cos you got it all wrong. But pardon me, I missed the part where it says YOU took a DIR course; or you you based it on hearsay? Again, you totally sidestepped the the points and make one up which looks like you are on pint but is off. Typical lawyer tactics? DIR is about bringing only hat you need. If you dont need doubles, dive singles. If you dont need the light, dont take it. Period. If you confuse Equipment Configuration with Mandatory Equipment, I rest my case. You can go on and on and make yourself feel good in your own la la land, but that's all there is to it.

Actually, DIR is all about standardizing equipment so the entire dive team is on the same wavelength.

"Diving with the same configuration not only helps solve problems, it prevents them."
"DIR equipment configurations are almost identical across a wide range of diving environments."

As I said before, except those items marked as optional on the equipment list (lights, long hose) or those that can vary depending on the environment and the dive (number and size of cylinders, exposure protection), the rest is mandatory. Leaving the knife behind is not DIR. Leaving the wrist compass behind is not DIR. Failing to follow any part of the rigid equipment standards is not DIR.

 

[TSandM]

Yes, it's true -- the basic configuration is mandated. Some things are optional -- the long hose used to be, although they now recommend 7' for everybody. Can lights are optional (silly to take them on shallow tropical dives where you can't see the things at all). Knife is required -- can you predict when you might need to cut something? Compass is not optional, because it can ALWAYS be useful.

But there is a difference between adopting a configuration because somebody told you to, and adopting it because the parts of it all make sense to you. I have read the reasons behind each choice, and I agree with them. You CAN share air on a short hose. I've been watching students do it for the last three days. Today, I had to play buddy for one, and I donated the long hose but didn't deploy it all. Worked fine for a direct, horizontal ascent in touch contact. We all have choices, and you do what makes sense to you . . . but the long hose gives you more options, in MY opinion.

A lot of people think those of us who have chosen the DIR direction are mindless drones, but in my experience, the people I know who dive this way are some of the most thoughtful and dedicated divers I've met. And I have watched diver after diver begin another way, and over time, begin adopting many of the gear choices and procedures simply because they just make sense.

 

[randytay]

Actually, DIR is all about standardizing equipment so the entire dive team is on the same wavelength.

"Diving with the same configuration not only helps solve problems, it prevents them."
"DIR equipment configurations are almost identical across a wide range of diving environments."

As I said before, except those items marked as optional on the equipment list (lights, long hose) or those that can vary depending on the environment and the dive (number and size of cylinders, exposure protection), the rest is mandatory. Leaving the knife behind is not DIR. Leaving the wrist compass behind is not DIR. Failing to follow any part of the rigid equipment standards is not DIR.

I give up. Go ahead and continue to be against what you perceived to be DIR or go take a class and immersed yourself in it and see for yourself (I bet that you are not going to do it since you are already pretty set in your own misconception based on reading a list of "Equipment Configuration"). I had my fun poking at you but it had become old. Good day to you and have a safe weekend. I am going diving.

Safe diving everyone, Randy out.

 

[Mossman]

I give up. Go ahead and continue to be against what you perceived to be DIR or go take a class and immersed yourself in it and see for yourself (I bet that you are not going to do it since you are already pretty set in your own misconception based on reading a list of "Equipment Configuration"). I had my fun poking at you but it had become old. Good day to you and have a safe weekend. I am going diving.

I'm not against DIR. It has its place in diving that's a lot more serious than I care to do. What I'm against are people like you who claim to be DIR and obviously have no clue about it. The post after mine, made by an SB staff member who has taken DIR Fundamentals, seems to agree with my assertions about mandated equipment and equipment configuration.

Yes, it's true -- the basic configuration is mandated. Some things are optional -- the long hose used to be, although they now recommend 7' for everybody. Can lights are optional (silly to take them on shallow tropical dives where you can't see the things at all). Knife is required -- can you predict when you might need to cut something? Compass is not optional, because it can ALWAYS be useful.

I stopped carrying a knife after diving in certain locales where it was not allowed. Prior to that, I never had to use it. Shears are probably more practical, yet they aren't DIR.

For most of my diving I don't bother with a compass. If it's self-guided on a parallel reef system like in Bonaire, navigation is simple without one. If it's a guided dive, I'll let the guide navigate. If I were to do a dive where I needed a compass, I would bring one. Bringing a compass and knife when I don't need either seems anti-DIR in that it's bringing stuff I don't need. I also violate DIR by compressing all my gauges into a single air-integrated computer. By doing that, I'm streamlining and doing without stuff I don't need (the HP hose and a cumbersome console). Therefore, I consider myself "Ultra DIR", a class far above the DIR mindless drones (your words, not mine

But there is a difference between adopting a configuration because somebody told you to, and adopting it because the parts of it all make sense to you. I have read the reasons behind each choice, and I agree with them. You CAN share air on a short hose. I've been watching students do it for the last three days. Today, I had to play buddy for one, and I donated the long hose but didn't deploy it all. Worked fine for a direct, horizontal ascent in touch contact. We all have choices, and you do what makes sense to you . . . but the long hose gives you more options, in MY opinion.

I fully agree there are dives where a compass is necessary. I full agree there are places where one wouldn't want to dive without a knife. But I've never had a failure of a quick-release, don't see the need for a rigid backplate and single-tank adapter to dive a single tank, and feel secure that my hose is long enough for the dives I do. The part of bringing stuff I don't need on a particular dive just because someone said so is what irks me, especially in a system that values minimalism.

A lot of people think those of us who have chosen the DIR direction are mindless drones, but in my experience, the people I know who dive this way are some of the most thoughtful and dedicated divers I've met. And I have watched diver after diver begin another way, and over time, begin adopting many of the gear choices and procedures simply because they just make sense.

I agree that Hogarthian configurations are better for technical (+ cave/wreck) diving. I just feel that DIR stepped over the line when it came to messing with recreational diving.

 

[TSandM]

Mossman, the beauty of diving is that you are entirely free to make your own choices regarding your equipment and procedures, and so am I. I chose to join a group of people who have decided that standardization is a virtue in its own right, and that adopting a configuration that moves seamlessly into more advanced diving (but works extremely well for any diving) is a reasonable thing.

I have never said anything bad about the choices you have made. Why do you feel the need to say ugly things about the way I have chosen to dive? It works for me, as your way works for you. I'm sure both of us can look at the other person's choices and criticize them -- and I'm not sure there are any "perfect" answers in diving. You have gone down one path in some branches where I have taken another . . . It doesn't mean either of us is "wrong" (or right, for that matter). It means each of us has found a way to dive that is comfortable.

I think that, for very analytical people and perfectionists, and for people who travel a lot, DIR diving makes sense. It fits one into a worldwide community of good buddies -- avoiding the "instabuddy" phenomenon that leads to a lot of the complaints on this board. It give one a platform that moves easily into technical or cave diving, should someone decide to go there. I live in this world, and love the strengths of it. You have chosen to dwell somewhere else, and I assume you are happy with what you have chosen to do, and whatever downsides your choices have, have little impact on your diving.

There is room in the ocean for all of us, and I really see no need for people to get ugly or nasty about other people's diving strategies. As long as you don't silt out a dive site, I really don't care what gear you use or how you dive. If you dive with ME, we will have some things as ground rules (including gas management and staying together as buddies), but if you aren't diving with me, have at it!

 

[Mossman]

Mossman, the beauty of diving is that you are entirely free to make your own choices regarding your equipment and procedures, and so am I. I chose to join a group of people who have decided that standardization is a virtue in its own right, and that adopting a configuration that moves seamlessly into more advanced diving (but works extremely well for any diving) is a reasonable thing.

In other words, you chose to give up choices. Your choice.

I have never said anything bad about the choices you have made. Why do you feel the need to say ugly things about the way I have chosen to dive? It works for me, as your way works for you. I'm sure both of us can look at the other person's choices and criticize them -- and I'm not sure there are any "perfect" answers in diving. You have gone down one path in some branches where I have taken another . . . It doesn't mean either of us is "wrong" (or right, for that matter). It means each of us has found a way to dive that is comfortable.

I don't believe I said anything ugly about DIR in my previous post. I only used the phrase "mindless drones" because you did.

Of course there is something to the notion that Doing It Right implies that anyone who isn't dressed the same, etc., is Doing It Wrong. Perhaps people would react to DIR more kindly if it were named something like Minimalist Approach to Diving (MAD) or Doing It on George Irvine's Terms (DIGIT).

I think that, for very analytical people and perfectionists, and for people who travel a lot, DIR diving makes sense. It fits one into a worldwide community of good buddies -- avoiding the "instabuddy" phenomenon that leads to a lot of the complaints on this board. It give one a platform that moves easily into technical or cave diving, should someone decide to go there. I live in this world, and love the strengths of it. You have chosen to dwell somewhere else, and I assume you are happy with what you have chosen to do, and whatever downsides your choices have, have little impact on your diving.

I'm not so sure about the "people who travel a lot" part. I've never met a DIR practitioner on a liveaboard or dive resort and only rarely even see someone with a backplate and wings on a dive boat and I consider myself someone who travels a lot, or at least I used to. In fact, I would consider strict adherence to the DIR philosophy rather limiting when it comes to finding a buddy when traveling since part of DIR is diving with likeminded buddies and if they're not on your boat, you end up diving with someone who will more likely be confused by your gear configuration than savvy to it.

There is room in the ocean for all of us, and I really see no need for people to get ugly or nasty about other people's diving strategies. As long as you don't silt out a dive site, I really don't care what gear you use or how you dive. If you dive with ME, we will have some things as ground rules (including gas management and staying together as buddies), but if you aren't diving with me, have at it!

Don't worry about buddying with me, I'll never dive with someone who imposes rules. On the other hand, if you were to ask nicely instead of demanding...

 

[TSandM]

Well, I guess I've done pretty well with the travel thing. I use internet resources to arrange local contacts where I go; so far, I've been able to do that just about everywhere.

As far as rules go, don't you have some basic concepts that outline what you are and are not willing to do on a dive? I hope so -- being willing to do anything under any conditions sounds to me like a recipe for some bad experiences. I have a few things on which I'm not willing to bend. We have to have a dive plan that both of us agree with, we have to have some kind of gas plan that makes sure that each of us has enough reserve for the other, if it is needed, we have to do a buddy check, and we have to agree to stay together as buddies through the dive. I don't think those things are unreasonable, and if you do, we probably shouldn't dive together.

 

[randytay]

Seems someone is still living 15 years ago. I shudder to think soneone who only hears about DIR claims to know DIR in its entirety than someone who has actually taken and course and doing it. I like it even better when he can claim DIR is ALL ABOUT EQUIPMENT citing the "Configuration" page, when those who does DIR can verily state its not about equipment but the mentality behind it. But whatever. As I said, one can choose to stay within one's la la land or one can go out and open one's eyes.

Let's ut it this way: If I was wrong with my assertions, I am pretty sure some experienced DIR folks here would have slapped me cyberly for misrepresenting them. You Mossman on the other hand, already has been slapped but has refused to see. What more is there is debate?

Safe diving everyone.

 

[Mossman]

Well, I guess I've done pretty well with the travel thing. I use internet resources to arrange local contacts where I go; so far, I've been able to do that just about everywhere.

But if you wanted to go on a particular liveaboard or experience a particular place at a particular time and no DIR buddies were available there and then, you would scrap the trip or go somewhere else, correct? Not me.

As far as rules go, don't you have some basic concepts that outline what you are and are not willing to do on a dive? I hope so -- being willing to do anything under any conditions sounds to me like a recipe for some bad experiences. I have a few things on which I'm not willing to bend. We have to have a dive plan that both of us agree with, we have to have some kind of gas plan that makes sure that each of us has enough reserve for the other, if it is needed, we have to do a buddy check, and we have to agree to stay together as buddies through the dive. I don't think those things are unreasonable, and if you do, we probably shouldn't dive together.

My gas plan is simple, unless it's a complex (i.e. technical dive). Don't run out of air. Yeah, I guess that qualifies as a rule, but it's pretty obvious. As for buddy checks, I'll go ahead and check the buddy if he/she wants me to and asks nicely, and I'll probably be surreptitiously checking anyway unless I know the person, but I don't need no stinkin' buddy check for me. Stay together as buddies through the dive? Sure, that's what the buddy system is about so it's really not a rule.

Actually, we'll probably have some sort of agreement on when to turn the dive, but that's not making rules, it's negotiating. I'll dive with just about anyone once. If they behave up to my standards, I'll dive with them again. If not, well...

 

[Mossman]

Seems someone is still living 15 years ago. I shudder to think soneone who only hears about DIR claims to know DIR in its entirety than someone who has actually taken and course and doing it. I like it even better when he can claim DIR is ALL ABOUT EQUIPMENT citing the "Configuration" page, when those who does DIR can verily state its not about equipment but the mentality behind it. But whatever. As I said, one can choose to stay within one's la la land or one can go out and open one's eyes.

Let's ut it this way: If I was wrong with my assertions, I am pretty sure some experienced DIR folks here would have slapped me cyberly for misrepresenting them. You Mossman on the other hand, already has been slapped but has refused to see. What more is there is debate?

Safe diving everyone.

In August 2010 you posted that you were a new diver. I've been discussing DIR and arguing with GUE founders and original instructors over 10 times longer than you've been certified to dive. Your comment about being "slapped cyberly" by experienced DIR divers for misrepresenting the system goes both ways, except that the only DIR practictioner here that has commented on this thread agreed with me and was just being too nice to slap you.

Once again, DIR is about equipment and about using that equipment. The equipment, with minor exceptions, is mandated. How to use that equipment is also mandated. You can't have one without the other. That's why it's called a holistic system. By taking pieces here and there and applying them to your newbie wisdom and experience, you're mangling the system, are definitely not DIR, and are probably a danger to yourself and those around you. Have a nice day