HELP!! Need Advice!!!

[Papa_Bear]

Welcome sassalin.

As a new diver in the pool, no one should be trying to "teach you a lesson" by holding you underwater. Yes, it is true that panic and rapid ascents can lead to barotrauma and decompression illness, but in the pool there is no excuse for holding you underwater.

In my opinion, the proper course of action would have been to meet you at the surface and find out what happened. Then, move you to tha shallow part of the pool to work on mask drills.

It doesn't matter what the instructor's would say. I don't care what the instructor's side is. No one should ever be grabbing you or your equipment underwater, period.

Find a new instructor.

Sorry, but you are wrong! I feel it is the instructors responsibility to avoid a bad situation turning worse! Sometimes you have to "Grab" an out of control diver to prevent injury! The pool is a good place to do it as well in controlled conditions! Are you saying you would let someone holding their breath float to the surface from the bottom of what could be a 12 or 13 foot pool? That could be very bad and very quick! If the person is going to react it is better then and deal with it! In instruction there is a lot of physical contact!

As far as the pool it is under the control of the senior instructor there at the time and insurance wise it is up to them if you are even allowed to be there, because ultimately he is in charge and responsible! You are a guest and visitor in the instructors place of business and should respect that! The fact that one of them came to help shows they were paying attention to what was going on in there control area! So again I would ask why he felt you were demonstrating dangerous behavior and what he was trying to teach you! It was not something I am sure that he did for kicks!

 

[DivingPrincessE]

I agree with the minority in this thread. If you are in the open ocean, panic, and shoot for the surface (which is what it sounds like you did) you should be so lucky to have someone holding you back. If you shoot up from any kind of depth you could get lung overexpantion or the bends...not good.

I also agree that mask clearing should be one of the easiest skills as it's one you will likely need to do the most post-certification. If your first instinct when something isn't going right is to head for the surface, you aren't ready for open water yet. Everyone, including me, has little things go wrong in open water class and/or things they have some trouble with...I never had the urge to surface in order to deal with it. Also I don't understand the Reg being too big for you. Mouthpieces can be different sizes I guess...but I think most regs/mouthpieces are about the same size. I'm a small person, with a small mouth and I have never needed a custom mouthpiece.

Lastly, welcome back papa bear!

 

[Nick_W]

I agree with the minority in this thread. If you are in the open ocean, panic, and shoot for the surface (which is what it sounds like you did) you should be so lucky to have someone holding you back. If you shoot up from any kind of depth you could get lung overexpantion or the bends...not good.

I would agree. If she was in open water. But the pool is not open water and there's really no need to start grabbing people there. That's why this stuff is practiced in the pool, so that if someone screws up they are in a shallow, controlled environment where if they do shoot to the surface, they really aren't going to hurt themselves.

On top of that, once she asked the dude to let her go, he really should have let her go, no questions asked.

I also agree that mask clearing should be one of the easiest skills as it's one you will likely need to do the most post-certification. If your first instinct when something isn't going right is to head for the surface, you aren't ready for open water yet. Everyone, including me, has little things go wrong in open water class and/or things they have some trouble with...I never had the urge to surface in order to deal with it. Also I don't understand the Reg being too big for you. Mouthpieces can be different sizes I guess...but I think most regs/mouthpieces are about the same size. I'm a small person, with a small mouth and I have never needed a custom mouthpiece.

Yes, it is important. And I personally applaud the OP for going to the pool to work on her skills. Of course, deciding to go to the pool to work on some skills only to be met by some guys who like to act tough in front of the lady-folk doesn't exactly encourage people to do that more often. I'm glad you didn't have the urge to surface, but a lot of people do.

As for the regs, I've seen a couple people have a hard time fitting a mouthpiece in their mouth, but it isn't too common.

 

[Guba]

Sorry, but you are wrong! I feel it is the instructors responsibility

Papa, I agree with more with this portion of your post than anything else. The instructor was indeed responsible, but from the very onset and not just when the panic situation occurred. While he was totally justified in taking the situation "in hand", he did make a mistake. That mistake was in the impromptu "test" of a skill in the deep end, one that he did not personally witness mastered in shallow water first. The first rule of good instruction is to teach, THEN test and do not assume a student has mastered a skill until you witness it, preferably more than once. The deep end is not the place to see it for the first time from anyone.

(heading off a barb...No, I am not a scuba instructor. I am, however, a trainer of lifeguards and firefighters. I believe many of the same principles of training apply to these as well as scuba instruction.)

Just my $.02.

 

[seaducer]

As far as the pool it is under the control of the senior instructor there at the time and insurance wise it is up to them if you are even allowed to be there, because ultimately he is in charge and responsible! You are a guest and visitor in the instructors place of business and should respect that! The fact that one of them came to help shows they were paying attention to what was going on in there control area! So again I would ask why he felt you were demonstrating dangerous behavior and what he was trying to teach you! It was not something I am sure that he did for kicks!

All shops that I know of allow their students back to practice between the end of class and the checkout dives. It is pretty standard here in the NE, when all winter it is too cold and nasty to introduce brand new divers to the open water. The really good shops will let their old students sit in on the pool sessions even after certified, if they haven't been in the water for a while and are going on vacation. It shows they care. As far as one of them coming over? If you aren't certified they need to have a DM, AI or instructor there watching the extra divers. If an uncertified unsupervised diver had a problem, that would be a nightmare for all involved.

As to the incident, I would bring the student safely to the surface and deal with it there. That may well be what happened, albiet with poor people skills or the OP in a panic stated misunderstood what was going on. I would certainly not try to restrain a student in a pool, that is a recipe for hating diving. In addition to that you run a very high risk of turning a moment of discomfort into a full blown emergency.
Better to get them up, calmed down, and then bring em back down to work it out, than to hold em under, have them suck a lungful of poolwater down and try to resucitate them on the deck afterwards.

But that is just my opinion...

 

[Zoomer]

Guba, I have to agree with Papa Bear here... the op stated that "I had already done all the pool work" and just wanted to refresh and practice before heading off to do her OW dives for certification. In this case I can see where the instructor assumed the student would or should have all the necessary skills to remove, replace and clear her mask....

 

[seaducer]

I agree with the minority in this thread. If you are in the open ocean, panic, and shoot for the surface (which is what it sounds like you did) you should be so lucky to have someone holding you back. If you shoot up from any kind of depth you could get lung overexpantion or the bends...not good.

I agree in open water. But a student in a pool is different IMO. They should be assisted to the surface when they start to bolt, talked through the issue and try again. And keep practicing until they get it. If they never do get it, well, they probably drop out on their own. Otherwise they should not be allowed to proceed to the OW dives.

 

[jim T.]

Ok, we've reaffirmed the OP's good sense in remaining cognizant of a potential lung expansion injury. Let's not freak her out further for now eh? We're trying to be supportive and confidence inspiring. It sounds like her current fear level will serve her fine for now

Sass. I didn't think about the snorkel as I'm diving double tanks with a long hose mostly now and don't use one as much as I used to, but, be sure to buy a "dry" snorkel. The Oceanic brand one, is an excellent dry snorkel. It'll increase your confidence quickly and exclude the fear of sucking in a lungful of water-very comforting. It's a bit stiff (hard plastic) but it has a swiveling mount for your mask strap.

Also be aware that there are frameless masks available which may (or may not) assume the shape of your face better than the standard frame masks. Shop around at several shops, borrow a few, don't just buy the brand your local shops happen to carry if they're not as perfect a fit as you can find for yourself. Remember though, that even the best fitting mask WILL leak a little when you smile underwater, ascend
without holding it on a little with your hand, if it's got too large a volume, etc. This is why it's essential to get comfy with a little leaking and clearing. It's really no big deal once you do get used to it and eventually you'll clear it without a 2nd thought.
Just don't wait on all of this if you really want to feel comfortable by March, it's not very far off!

 

[rawls]

I wasn't there to see what happened but if you got water up your nose and began to panic there is a good chance you were holding your breath. It seems to me the instructor/divemaster was there to help you and not hurt you. You stated very correctly that you can suffer a lung overexpansion injury in very shallow water. It seems the person saw you in a panic and bolting to the surface and simply wanted to assist in avoiding the potential for you never getting to go on your dive vacation. Again...I wasn't there but perhaps the inst/DM was holding onto you at the surface because he felt you were still having trouble and it seems that your beginning to yell at him may have validated that it was an appropriate thing for him to do. I am no doubt speculating, but reading your post leaves me feeling that the "just a helper" may have been simply trying to help.

I don't have alot of experience yet but that is why I am going to the pool to make my mistakes instead of the ocean.

You totally did the right thing. We always encourage new divers to come to the pool and practice skills. They can use our equipment free of charge and need only call us and let us know they are going to be there. Some do, but, unfortunately more do not. You were obviously one who did. It may not seem that way but I can see it as having been a positive experience.

he did make a mistake. That mistake was in the impromptu "test" of a skill in the deep end, one that he did not personally witness mastered in shallow water first. The first rule of good instruction is to teach, THEN test and do not assume a student has mastered a skill until you witness it, preferably more than once. The deep end is not the place to see it for the first time from anyone.

He made no mistake at all. A certified diver has to master the skill of mask clearing or they need not be certified at all. It doesn't matter whether she was in the deep end or the shallow end. She is a certified scuba diver and needed to be able to perform the mask clear. She will not be diving in 4 or 5 feet of water when she goes on her vacation.

If you are in the open ocean, panic, and shoot for the surface (which is what it sounds like you did) you should be so lucky to have someone holding you back.

Exactly....

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I also am with those who said there was an effort made to prevent an injury. I'd have done the same if I'd suddenly seen you bolt for the surface without a reg. I'd have had my alternate in hand to give you but fact is you are not certified yet. You would not have been practicing alone or with an other uncertified diver. Yes the hey girl was disrespectful and a " what numbnuts?" would have been called for but fact is anytime a noncertifed diver is in the water- even a pool- you should be under direct instructor supervision. Your responsibility here was to either not get in the water when he told you to go off by yourself or state that you are not certified yet. You said you did not know the instructor. Did they know you were not certified or did they think you were just brushing up on skills which many certified divers do during some of our classes. I also do not understand the reg being too big, why were you wearing a bc that did not fit, it it does not fit you must sit- out the dive. Sorry could not resist. A new yet to be certified diver going over skills in unfamiliar gear is asking for trouble. Alot of things went wrong here. Luckily nobody got hurt. Bottom line when you saw there would be no direct supervision you should have asked for some or not got in the water. Not sure what agency but allowing a non certified diver(student) to get in the water on scuba unsupervised (meaning an Instructor or certified assistant is not working with you) may be a violation of standards.