HELP!! Need Advice!!!

[Lucy's Diver]

The DM (presumably that's what he was) may well have prevented an overexpansion injury. The student in this case may well have felt supported, comfortable, and all warm and fuzzy topside if allowed to punch out. That nice, supportive, comfortable feeling a surprising majority of people here seem to think is so important would have done nothing to keep an AGE at bay. Gas in your closed lungs cares not whether you are in a pool, a lake, or the ocean. It cares not what depth you are at -- except that it will expand faster on a 5 foot ascent from 5 to zero that from 35 to 30.

That's right, all the warm and fuzzy in the world will not change physics. The closer you are to the surface the faster the bubble grows (and quicker it gets into the blood) for the same relative ascent distance. In that sense a pool can be a dangerous place for beginners on scuba.

As has been pointed out, you can cough, puke, yell, spit, anything else through the reg. Being on the surface won't get you not coughing quicker if you keep the reg in your mouth, but bolting for the surface in panic can get you a stroke pretty quick, and I do know a diver who stroked out due to an AGE from a less than 10 foot ascent, and that ascent was deeper than any pool.

I'm sure the DM here has a side to the story. I'm sure it was seeing a breath holding diver bolt.

Come on, maybe the guy is bad with names. I am. Give him a break. He may have saved her life.

And regs don't come in "sizes" unless you buy a custom mouthpiece. Until you buy your own gear your going to have to learn to live with imperfect stuff, and even then things break.

 

[diver 85]

Sorry, but you are wrong! I feel it is the instructors responsibility to avoid a bad situation turning worse! Sometimes you have to "Grab" an out of control diver to prevent injury! The pool is a good place to do it as well in controlled conditions! Are you saying you would let someone holding their breath float to the surface from the bottom of what could be a 12 or 13 foot pool? That could be very bad and very quick! If the person is going to react it is better then and deal with it! In instruction there is a lot of physical contact!

As far as the pool it is under the control of the senior instructor there at the time and insurance wise it is up to them if you are even allowed to be there, because ultimately he is in charge and responsible! You are a guest and visitor in the instructors place of business and should respect that! The fact that one of them came to help shows they were paying attention to what was going on in there control area! So again I would ask why he felt you were demonstrating dangerous behavior and what he was trying to teach you! It was not something I am sure that he did for kicks!

The question that keeps going thru my mind is 'If the OOC diver needs some air, you going to supply it??'.....

 

[RonFrank]

It is fairly common for an instructor to grab an OW student if they attempt to bolt to the surface. Unfortunately I've witnessed this on several occasions. They may or may not be able to stop the student depending on how quick they catch the issue, and how buoyant the student is.

For an uncertified student to dive anywhere, even in a pool (assuming this is an LDS pool, and they are following the rules), and instructor must be present. A DM is not enough.

DM's can accompany uncertified divers, but only with an instructor present.

If they guy that grabbed you was not an instructor, I'm betting he was a DM. There is liability involved in mixing uncertified students with a non-covered diver. Most LDS's in this area allow student who have not completed their training to dive in the pool at no change with an instructor. Non-Instructors/DM's are not allowed to share pool time with non-certified divers at least at our LDS.

My suggestion is that if you are using their rental gear, or student gear, than try it out before you set it up to make sure that it's as good of a fit as you are able to find.

If the reg was OK in the past, than obviously they have some different mouthpieces/models, and you need to tell them if one is uncomfortable that you want to find something different.

Keep your head up! I mean down!

 

[Gombessa]

I'm still confused by the "reg too big" statement. I can understand mouthpieces being ill-sized, but I've never seen anyone not able to chomp down on it and prevent "even a tiny current" from ripping it loose. Seems if the reg was that big, you wouldn't be able to fit it in your mouth to get a seal in the first place? Conversely, if you can fit it in your mouth, you can certainly get your teeth around it.

 

[Nylorac]

Hi Sassalin,

I hope you have overcome this problem and are ready to enjoy all scuba has to offer you. The fact that you now realize that you were ascending too fast (but didn't feel that way at the time) is an acknowledgement that the DM probably had your best interests at heart. In you own words you were on the verge of panic and there is nothing more dangerous in diving than being panicked. Don’t feel bad about it – its just part of the learning process - but you should be thankful someone was watching you who cared enough to intervene.

Again - I hope you continue diving , it just gets better and better with practice!

 

[K_girl]

Actually, these "helpers" are known as dive masters. Many of them are on their way to being dive instructors, some do it for the enjoyment of helping new divers learn to dive. Many of the divers that will guide you on your vacation will be dive masters and most are very experienced and professional and you will depend on them. The amateur dive masters usually work through the local dive shop. Some gain the title to impress others and feed their egos while others truly enjoy helping divers to learn to dive. Sounds like you did not like the way this instructor was treating you before you even got into the pool, therefore, you did not like him and you did not trust him. This is where the real problem lies for you. If you had liked and trusted this dive master, I believe the result of your incident could have been different.

The role of a dive master is to watch and help people when they get into trouble. Dive masters are trained to stop a diver that is panicking and ascending too quickly. I have a friend who was on vacation who had aspirated some water and began choking underwater and started making a bee-line for the surface - the dive master grabbed him - like she was trained to do. He wound-up having to have chamber treatments, but he was thankful because if the dive master had not slowed him down, it would have been worse. They are also trained to tell people that they have to work out their problems underwater. They may be lousy at delivering the message, but that is the bottom line. Also, this kind of work does put the dive master's life at risk. A panicked diver can injure or kill a dive master in multiple ways and it has happened. For this reason, some of them may get a little offish towards a diver they see as potentially risky.

Be aware that you may not always have a dive master that you like, but you should be ready to trust them. None of them are going to try and kill you.

Here is what you have done RIGHT - you are engaging this community and asking questions. That will make you a better diver!

 

[DarrylStans]

As someone that takes care of a large number of referals I applaud the DM that held you. It was his training and the proper response. Many people don't take the dangers of scuba seriously enough and maybe this will really make you think about it (it is for your benefit). If you have passed your pool sessions and are planning open water with a different instructor then you need to be ready to have water in your nose at 30 fsw. If you panic and shoot from 30 feet holding you breath you can only hope the guy is quick enough to grab you or you will be seriously hurt. I hope that you change the negative to a positive and realize that however you took it the DM was trying to help you.

Second point: Buy a mask that fits! Several others have mentioned this and it is likely the difference between you becoming a diver or getting certified and never diving again.

I wish you the best in your future diving; welcome to the society.

 

[all4scuba05]

Sassalin,

Now, to play devil's advocate - If you are diving in Nassau and after 25 min at 50ft you laugh/sneeze/whatever and get water in your nose, what will you do? Is someone who stops you from bolting (here I mean a panicked ascent, probably faster than normal, with obvious breathing difficulty) in that situation someone who has rescued you or hurt you? I think anyone would agree that the answer is someone who has rescued you. If no one grabs you in that scenario what are the injuries that you could sustain? Not trying to be hard on you here, just want you to think it thru.

Not for nothing, but you would kill someone. Let's say you're at depth with a paniced diver. Paniced because they're choking on water from breathing through nose in a flooded mask or broken mouthpiece or whatever. They start bolting to surface already in a panic choking on water. 5 feet or 50 feet, whatever. You're going to hold them down and expect them to stop panicing? You will increase their panic until they drown. But atleast they didn't get an embolism.

I don't know about that idea. If the person who bolts to the surface is choking on water, I say let them go. they've already dropped the ball and not much you can do for them. Meet them at the surface and help them there.

 

[DivingPrincessE]

I don't know about that idea. If the person who bolts to the surface is choking on water, I say let them go. they've already dropped the ball and not much you can do for them. Meet them at the surface and help them there.

Meet their corpse at the surface?

 

[all4scuba05]

Create a corpse at depth or meet corpse at surface. Yes, meet corpse at surface.