Hey Hoover ~ Did you ruin someone's dive?

[mempilot]

But still air consumption will only improve with time and experience. You can teach gas planning all you want, it won't change the fact that new divers will consume more air than experienced divers mostly because of nerves (whether they realise it or not).

That's why God invented bigger tanks. You can lead a hoover to more air, but you can't make him suck.

So now, all SB members should go into teaching mode on boats since it is our duty to do so? Come on man?? That is the fundamental problem with the basic training agencies. They pump out divers not ready for what they are to embark in.

 

[pilot fish]

You are a hoover. You suck down half your al80 before even getting to the bottom. You discover your needle is in the red 15 minutes later and only then bother to inform the poor person assigned as your *buddy* what your air status is. You thumb the dive and expect them to accompany you to the surface. They do but still have 2/3 of their gas left. They paid $$$ for the dive trip but you've ruined it for them.

Do you feel any responsibility to recompense them?

When I first started diving, my first 15 dives, I used air too quickly, like most divers, because of bad trim, over weighting and general inexperience, but I always made it back to the boat at the same time so as not to ruin the dive of the couple I was paired with. We were all under the boat at the end of the dive but I had to go up alone because I was low on air, 600 psi, and they stayed under the boat for another 10 minutes or so. Each dive I got better, shed more weight, better trim, less movement, etc. I would feel badly if I caused someone to lose half their dive. It would not be fair. Not sure I would offer money but I would not hold them back on the next dive.

This brings me to the nagging question, what happens if you and this Hoover are the odd man on the boat and you don't want to dive with him? What if DM insists, as happened to me in Coz a few years ago? How do you get out of it if he is all there is and you are not trained or have the proper equipment to solo dive?

 

[mempilot]

I might also try to help the person out. Check their weighting, anxiety, body position etc... Once they started getting low, I might offer my long hose to breath off of as well. .

Jeesh OE2X, will you pay for their dive too?

Like you said though, the first time, OK. The second time. Well the second time they were with someone else.

Guys, I'm not saying everyone should have a SAC of .2

What I'm saying is, if you have a high SAC, then you should dive the appropriate supply for the intended bottom time. - and oh ya, get off the french fries fatty!

Don't beat me up, I put the smiley with the eyebrows in twice to signify humor.

 

[wcl]

You are a hoover. You suck down half your al80 before even getting to the bottom. You discover your needle is in the red 15 minutes later and only then bother to inform the poor person assigned as your *buddy* what your air status is. You thumb the dive and expect them to accompany you to the surface. They do but still have 2/3 of their gas left. They paid $$$ for the dive trip but you've ruined it for them.

Do you feel any responsibility to recompense them?

As with many things I have learned as a newcomer to diving, I think the best answer is to avoid the need for the question in the first place.

Two things:

I do feel it is my responsibilty to learn my gas needs and know what to expect in advance of a dive plan to the best of my ability; and my responsibility to be sure that those I dive with are aware of the limitations of my experience and thus potentially my accuracy with gas planning (and anything else pertinent, and that we all agree how to deal with potential contingencies arising therefrom). Whatever we do together from that point forward is with full informed consent (though I certainly would not be happy with my performance if I did have to bail out, and would apologize to my companions and likely pony up lunch or beer or some consolation).

In particularly new situations where I don't have reasonable confidence in being able to complete the dive without having to yank back on my companions, I have found the most effective approach is to engage in such dives under instruction. That way, in effect, I have indeed paid for the other's dive, in advance (I am the dive!).


I all cases, I am extremely fortunuate in having my own permanent buddy (my wife), and our diving skills and performance are pretty well matched, so at least I get to skip the random-buddy part ... we would only impact the wider group.

Cheers,
Walter

 

[jbd]

But still air consumption will only improve with time and experience.

Logical and certainly true enough.

You can teach gas planning all you want, it won't change the fact that new divers will consume more air than experienced divers mostly because of nerves (whether they realise it or not).

Again, this is true also

You can teach all the diving skills you want, and STILL there will be an enormous difference between beginners and experienced divers.

I disagree here. People who are trained and practiced to a reasonable point of comfort, in my experience, don't have an enormous difference from a more experienced diver. Granted there is some difference but, not enough that the lesser experienced but well trained diver would be considered a "hoover".

 

[mempilot]

This brings me to the nagging question, what happens if you and this Hoover are the odd man on the boat and you don't want to dive with him? What if DM insists, as happened to me in Coz a few years ago? How do you get out of it if he is all there is and you are not trained or have the proper equipment to solo dive?

If you are not equipped to solo dive, then you shouldn't. Ask for a different buddy or if you can dive in teams of 3. This might get you flogged by OpinionGirl, so then you go to plan Z and dive with the hoover.

 

[Squalus]

Ok you got me....just kidding. I would help pay if I had caused somebody to cut short their dive, my error in judgement as far as sac goes. Had that problem once, will never happen again.... Must have been the 1000 times I had to write, "I will not suck down gas like it's going out of style".

 

[mempilot]

Well said newbie! Welcome to the world of enlightenment. Now you, I would dive with, because you have taken the time to learn.

As with many things I have learned as a newcomer to diving, I think the best answer is to avoid the need for the question in the first place.

Two things:

I do feel it is my responsibilty to learn my gas needs and know what to expect in advance of a dive plan to the best of my ability; and my responsibility to be sure that those I dive with are aware of the limitations of my experience and thus potentially my accuracy with gas planning (and anything else pertinent, and that we all agree how to deal with potential contingencies arising therefrom). Whatever we do together from that point forward is with full informed consent (though I certainly would not be happy with my performance if I did have to bail out, and would apologize to my companions and likely pony up lunch or beer or some consolation).

In particularly new situations where I don't have reasonable confidence in being able to complete the dive without having to yank back on my companions, I have found the most effective approach is to engage in such dives under instruction. That way, in effect, I have indeed paid for the other's dive, in advance (I am the dive!).


I all cases, I am extremely fortunuate in having my own permanent buddy (my wife), and our diving skills and performance are pretty well matched, so at least I get to skip the random-buddy part ... we would only impact the wider group.

Cheers,
Walter

 

[FatCat]

That's why God invented bigger tanks. You can lead a hoover to more air, but you can't make him suck.

Well, you lot do use very small tanks, don't you? Most people around here start off with a 15 litre tank. That's a lot of air.

So now, all SB members should go into teaching mode on boats since it is our duty to do so? Come on man?? That is the fundamental problem with the basic training agencies. They pump out divers not ready for what they are to embark in.

Re-read my post. I didn't say YOU should. I said you should be glad there are people who do so. Without them, you'd probably have drowned as a newbie.

BTW, the fundamental problem lies with the consumer. People want it fast and cheap. And afterwards they gripe.

man, i used to use less air than a worm under ten feet of ice... and then
i quit smoking.

no kidding. once i quit smoking, my air consumption shot through the roof.
it's not nearly as bad now, 1 year and 9 months later, but it's nowhere
as good as when i was a smoker.

can't brag no more

I've heard that before. It's the reason why I'm still trying to convince PADI to let me market my EANc specialty (Enriched Air Nicotine)

 

[pilot fish]

If you are not equipped to solo dive, then you shouldn't. Ask for a different buddy or if you can dive in teams of 3. This might get you flogged by OpinionGirl, so then you go to plan Z and dive with the hoover.

Yeah, now your'e in a team of three and the hoover is part of that trio Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh