Hogarthian vs. DIR

[Rick Murchison]

over a year ago, Rick Murchison once bubbled...
The "Hogarthian" gear configuration had simplification, streamlining, redundancy, elimination of failure points and a logical, easy to reach arrangement as its central theme. The DIR gear arrangement is a mature Hogarthian system that is standardized around the WKPP's refinements.
In other words, the DIR gear arrangement is Hogarthian, but all "Hogarthian" gear arrangements aren't "DIR."
Rick

Roakey once bubbled...
A simplifed, but still pretty accurate answer is that Hogarthian is a subset of DIR. Hogarthian is only about equipment configuration. DIR uses the basic Hogarthian configuration but builds upon it with skills, buddy awareness, fitness, dive planning, etc.

Again, the DIR gear arrangement is one of many possible "Hogarthian" gear arrangements, so the DIR gear arrangement is a subset of Hogarthian. As Roakey says, however, "DIR" is much more than a Hogarthian gear arrangement, but a complete diving package that includes equipment, training, procedure and philosophy.
Whether DIR is the "one way" or not is another argument entirely, but its efficacy evidenced by its record is indisputable.
Rick (incidentally, I fall on the "one of many ways" side of that argument)

 

[Waterlover]

DIR Is just great marketing of Hogarthian...they have allot of people convinced you have to buy certain gear and items to be DIR. I personnally think you can be hogarthian and still be DIR. I just don't buy the marketing sometimes......Just my $.02

 

[adder70]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...



Whether DIR is the "one way" or not is another argument entirely, but its efficacy evidenced by its record is indisputable.
Rick (incidentally, I fall on the "one of many ways" side of that argument)

Not "the one way"?! and they haven't taken back your swasti-- er..., DIR C-card?!

My only issue, from what I have read on this board, would be the DIR people who feel the need to approach people and tell them they are DIW, especially if in OW where rigid adherence to a technical diving gear setup and philosophy is not necessary to maintain safety. Want to dive your way? Great. Want to avoid diving with me because I'm not DIR? Fine. Just don't approach me on a random boat/shoreline and try to indoctrinate me.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Don Burke once bubbled...
"free beer".

When and Where!!!! I need to know these kinds of things...they are essetntial to a productive work environment

 

[Don Burke]

Waterlover once bubbled... DIR Is just great marketing of Hogarthian...they have allot of people convinced you have to buy certain gear and items to be DIR. I personnally think you can be hogarthian and still be DIR. I just don't buy the marketing sometimes......Just my $.02

I'd expect Halcyon to make drysuits if that were the case.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Hogarthian gear configuration and philosophy was around long before DIR and, despite a few comments otherwise in this thread, was also much more than just a gear configuration. It was the original minimalist concept where if it was not needed it was not taken and what was taken was carefully streamlined in the committment to improving a diver's ability to move through the water efficiently. It was also where the concept of breathing and donating the long hose reg originated. Within those philosophical boundaries however there was room to move and to do your own thing.

DIR is just a more conservative and rigid subset of Hogarthian diving. A hogarthian diver would accept most DIR divers as hogarthian, but a DIR diver would not neccesarily accept many hogarthians as DIR. In my opinion the difference bewtween the two lies in the acceptance of divers modifying their own configuration for their own specific needs. A hogarthian diver has the freedom to think about his own gear configuration and make changes as needed for this particular needs and diving situation.

DIR is a more zealous interpretation of Hogartian configuration and philosophy that also proclaims that divers should use a configuration specifically tailored to their specific needs. But they go one step farther and state that DIR is "the" way that will be best for everyone's individual needs and consequently removes both the freedom of choice and the expectation that divers make their own independent decisions about gear configuration. The fairly ego centric and common DIR comment that if you think about your gear configuration correctly you will do it DIR, sums the difference up nicely.

In practical terms diving solo with independent doubles would be acceptable in hogarthian diving (with due concern expressed about the increased air management tasks) if it met a diver's individual needs and was a well considered and well informed decision. But the same practice and configuration would not be acceptable under DIR philosophy no matter how relevant or well thought out just because it deviates from the more rigid DIR standards.

 

[detroit diver]

Hold it. Stop. Re-read Roakey's post again because most of you have no idea what you are talking about.

Let me try it again.

Hogarthian diving is primarily about equipment. Let this sink in.


DIR is a complete system. Equipment, diving skills, buddy awareness, fitness, dive planning, and more. Each one is inclusive of the other and cannot be seperated from the group.

Please note: equipment as it relates to DIR is ONLY ONE SMALL PART OF THE EQUATION In fact, the rest is much more important when taken as a whole.

For those of you that have not taken a GUE class, please do not tell the rest of us what DIR is all about. What you read on the internet is mostly wrong-take this thread for example. You focus on equipment only and you would be well off the mark.

 

[adder70]

detroit diver once bubbled...


Hogarthian diving is primarily about equipment. Let this sink in.

For those of you that have not taken a GUE class, please do not tell the rest of us what DIR is all about.

I think the issue is not people talking about DIR, it is more about people making the statement that Hogarthian methods concern only equipment and do not encompass a diving philosophy as well. Perhaps some people with direct experience in Hogarthian methods can enlighten us.

My understanding is that a group of exploratory divers developed a philosophy of diving for their technical needs, with some development for individual setups. Then a subset of those divers decided to found an organization based on many of these principals. Others joined this group and GUE began to take shape. For developing a curriculum of certification, loose principles became definite rules, and certain principles of the Hogarthian method were futher refined and a set of requirements drawn up for a curriculum.

A certification curriculum by definition is rigid, just like diving intro to cave under NACD certification requires 2 complete regs and a 5' hose (May require 7', I just know I have the required hose, and haven't measured it lately.). However, the issue many have with DIR divers is the notion that all divers should dive DIR setups and methods in all environments. Sure, I always dive with both regs, but mostly because I don't want to repeatedly change my tank valves, and I would have no problem diving with a person on a single reg for a standard OW dive.

I think the real difference lies in the degree of rigidity required by developing a certification curriculum versus simply developing a voluntary system among a group of divers who frequently dove together.

Hogarthian = highly fluid, no cert, suggestions, relatively small group

DIR = certification, rigid and slower to change since curricula must be changed throughout an ever expanding organization, requirements (some zealous supporters)

 

[GQMedic]

While I am not "DIR" nor do I play one on TV, in recently recieving "Doing It Right, The fundamentals of better diving", I'll assert my .02 here.

I've posted in the not so distant past quite opposite the DIR crowd, you'll notice the DIMW tagline, now, I'm thinking that there's more to this "DIR stuff" that I shot down perviously. Not that I am leaping through doors and windows to become the equally millitant pro-DIR crowd, after reading this, playing with gear configs, pondering my own skills proficiency and what I could improve on, physical fitness and my overall diving lifestyle, the DIR people at GUE have something here, if not of use to everyone, certainly of use to me.

So, before more of the Anti-DIR guys pop up (of which I am, or was one) "we" may want to take another look at DIR. (I'm not even choking these words out!) There's some good stuff here. I also think you can not only practice being DIR, but BE DIR without chipping a cent into GUE's or Halcyon's kitty. (Although I do like Halcyon's BP and wings, I also like my splitfins... so bite me)

Will I become DIR? Hmm... not sure, I like DIMW, but I can see some DIR things become a part of the hodge podge of DIMW. I'm still pondering the class. How can it hurt?

 

[detroit diver]

Short answer: It can't, and it won't. It's a great class and you can do whatever you want with what you learn in it.

One of the things I've noticed over the years is that those that screamed the loudest were DIR's most vocal proponents after taking the class. That says a lot. And all joking aside, it's obviously got nothing to do with brainwashing or koolaid or whatever tag is put on it. It's just a great class taught be wonderful instuctors.

GQMedic once bubbled...
While I am not "DIR" nor do I play one on TV, in recently recieving "Doing It Right, The fundamentals of better diving", I'll assert my .02 here.

I've posted in the not so distant past quite opposite the DIR crowd, you'll notice the DIMW tagline, now, I'm thinking that there's more to this "DIR stuff" that I shot down perviously. Not that I am leaping through doors and windows to become the equally millitant pro-DIR crowd, after reading this, playing with gear configs, pondering my own skills proficiency and what I could improve on, physical fitness and my overall diving lifestyle, the DIR people at GUE have something here, if not of use to everyone, certainly of use to me.

So, before more of the Anti-DIR guys pop up (of which I am, or was one) "we" may want to take another look at DIR. (I'm not even choking these words out!) There's some good stuff here. I also think you can not only practice being DIR, but BE DIR without chipping a cent into GUE's or Halcyon's kitty. (Although I do like Halcyon's BP and wings, I also like my splitfins... so bite me)

Will I become DIR? Hmm... not sure, I like DIMW, but I can see some DIR things become a part of the hodge podge of DIMW. I'm still pondering the class. How can it hurt?