Hovering

[Thalassamania]

I used "lotus" in jest, and it seemed to stick.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Gee, for all the "Not in the standards", Padi certainly goes to great length to suggest that this is how they want their divers to do it.

That's how most of us were taught to do it, that's how most of us were tested in the DM class, ditto for the IE (Don't rock the boat??)...and hey, in that video I HAVE to use as an instructor, well heck, that's what a lot of those divers are doing too......

So, what 10% of the instructors do in this area that is not as per this highly suggested method of skill development (if not by standard), really is quite irrelevant, and really, it may as well be in the standard that way for the 90% give or take, that have learned no other method.

Call it a standard or not, that's what they are implying by their constant pounding of the Indian style propoganda in their literature.

Sure I don't allow that nonsense in my class either....the unfortunate thing for the students is, since that is the defacto-standard, they'll be beaten up with it as they progress through the curiculuum, and I'll be made the bad guy for not teaching them this way......lol.

Oh, ditto for the bungied back-up and primary donate.

Oh well......

Regards

 

[H2OSensei]

I had the same problem in the beginning and found that the reason was in my weight positioning and trim.

The other thing that made it difficult for me was the the fins I was using were very buoyant and made my feet rise. I used ankle weights and it solved the problem.

I understand you wanting to perform "demonstration quality" hovering and I applaude that dedication. Get in the pool and play with your weight and trim. Try a different set of fins that are less buoyant or use ankle weights.

You'll get it sooner or later..... don't give up!

 

[stevetim]

DM=Dive Master
If they require you to master this skill under their guidelines, why bash it?
Original post asked for advice, not question the skills required.
My advice is to try sitting in that position on the pool floor first. Then gradually increase buoyancy until you can keep the position neutral above the pool floor.
I've tried it and it does take some practice but much easier than trying to learn it while not seated. Before you know it you'll be able to do it from any previous position without any problems on command.

 

[jbichsel]

I had the cross-legged' position explained to me like this:

Hovering horizontally places more of your bodys surface area perpedicular to the verticle plan, thus causing greater resistance to verticle movement and making it easier to maintain verticle position in the water column.

In the verticle or cross-legged position, that surface area is minimized therefore reducing the verticle resistance and making it more difficult to control your verticle movement, maintain your verticle position, while performing the skill.

I've tested the theory multiple times and it seems to be true.

As another poster stated, the idea is to give you the most difficult position and have you master that.

I was taught and teach all three. While position is not mandated, I believe in teaching all the options. Master the difficult one(s) then it's all downhill.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

As another poster stated, the idea is to give you the most difficult position and have you master that.

Yeah OK, they're all about heavy duty well though out training aren't they. :lol:

So when's the part where they show you how to do it horizontally....the correct way?

'Cause I'm still waiting to see it

The next post is going to try and tell us it's a "Building Block" skill . Nonsense beyond the pale.

 

[jbichsel]

Yeah OK, they're all about heavy duty well though out training aren't they. :lol:

So when's the part where they show you how to do it horizontally....the correct way?

'Cause I'm still waiting to see it

The next post is going to try and tell us it's a "Building Block" skill . Nonsense beyond the pale.

Actually, ScubaSteve, I died during my first PADI pool session because it was so lame and incompetant. PADI is possibly the worst organization on the planet, responsible for global warming, acid rain, small pox, male pattern baldness and cats hacking up hairballs.

In fact, from the tone of the posts I've read from you, all divers should be dead EXCEPT for those that train with you.

Geesh, give it a break. The vast majority of us agree with your all-knowing assessment of the inadequacy of existing training standards. However, most of us are mature enough to know that the standards are a MINIMUM and that we can teach beyond them to some extent.

Your posts seem to state that even if we try to exceed, it is some sort of conspiracy, we are all lying and incompetent.

Show me where I said that ANY training agencies standards were "they're all about heavy duty well though out training aren't they". (Try a spell check)

Nor did I say that any agency does or recommends teaching it horizontally or that it is any sort of "Building Block".

I simply stated what was explained to me years ago and thought I could provide some insight as to why that particular position MIGHT have been chosen.

It is a shame that some people seem to have the incessant need to tear others down in order to elevate themselves.

 

[Fotoz4FX]

I was doing my skills check out for DM class and I got through everything except for the hovering. I just cannot seem to stay still long enough to fold my legs and hover Indian style. But I have absolutely no problem doing fin pivots or hovering horizontally. Any advice?

It's hard to believe that people believe that this is not a necessary skill to learn but then maybe it needs clarification so that everyone can understand why it is so important.
1. Hovering gives you the ability to maintain bouyancy control by breathing alone - no effort = no exercise = better air consumption.
2. Peak bouyancy control (Hovering) is the one credential fo anyone who cares about the marine ecosystem. If you want to photograph or view something up close and NOT place the 'death touch' on the marine life you are upon, hovering is MANDATORY.
3. Ever penetrate a wreck or dive into a cave? Not only do you have to modify your kick but your absolute control over your bouyancy is necessary so you don't cause a silt out. If you have ever dropped onto the bottom of a lakebed and become part of the mushroom cloud you've created you will be quick to note that 0 visibility becomes the norm, not the exception for such mistakes. I teach the 'air brake' principle when descending on 'ground zero' or your wreck so you don't destroy the discovery for everyone who follows you.
4. Divemasters have to be able to Hover over students during skill evaluations to prevent the student from making a panic ascent to the surface... a good Divemaster will master this skill and yes, it is required.

Hovering can best be done by standing up at the bottom of the pool (where you will likely be tested), slowly inflating your bc until you become light enough on your feet that an inhalation will raise you (I suggest the bc be inflated to mid-breath neutrality to accomplish the hover). This way you can just raise your legs up into the 'lotus' position (not required... all that is required is hovering without kicking or using your hands, not a position).

Practice this and weight placement to provide the best posture for your kind of diving.

Hope this helps you out.
Galan
(by the way, I'm a Diabetic and diving PADI Instructor - 182060)

 

[Notso_Ken]

PADI I think has it as a skill for OW, maybe for DM too.

I did not have to do it for my PADI OW, it was never mentioned as a skill, and I do not see it listed on the skills card. Fortunately, because, altho I can sit still long enough, my joints don't want to bend like that!


Ken

 

[Atticus]

I don't think anyone questions whether or not hovering is a critical skill. What is being questioned in why people are being taught to hover in a vertical or near vertical (indian) position.

Many of us with training beyond open water scuba instructor (ie: technical, cave, wreck, etc) feel that a proper hover should be done with the diver horizontal.

The natural uses for a hover are a) when you stop swimming and stop to look at something, b) when you are providing assistance during a class and wish to be able to "catch" an ascending student and c) when you are performing a decompression stop.

The only reason I can think of for the indian position hover is that it looks cool.

It's hard to believe that people believe that this is not a necessary skill to learn but then maybe it needs clarification so that everyone can understand why it is so important.
1. Hovering gives you the ability to maintain bouyancy control by breathing alone - no effort = no exercise = better air consumption.
2. Peak bouyancy control (Hovering) is the one credential fo anyone who cares about the marine ecosystem. If you want to photograph or view something up close and NOT place the 'death touch' on the marine life you are upon, hovering is MANDATORY.
3. Ever penetrate a wreck or dive into a cave? Not only do you have to modify your kick but your absolute control over your bouyancy is necessary so you don't cause a silt out. If you have ever dropped onto the bottom of a lakebed and become part of the mushroom cloud you've created you will be quick to note that 0 visibility becomes the norm, not the exception for such mistakes. I teach the 'air brake' principle when descending on 'ground zero' or your wreck so you don't destroy the discovery for everyone who follows you.
4. Divemasters have to be able to Hover over students during skill evaluations to prevent the student from making a panic ascent to the surface... a good Divemaster will master this skill and yes, it is required.

Hovering can best be done by standing up at the bottom of the pool (where you will likely be tested), slowly inflating your bc until you become light enough on your feet that an inhalation will raise you (I suggest the bc be inflated to mid-breath neutrality to accomplish the hover). This way you can just raise your legs up into the 'lotus' position (not required... all that is required is hovering without kicking or using your hands, not a position).

Practice this and weight placement to provide the best posture for your kind of diving.

Hope this helps you out.
Galan
(by the way, I'm a Diabetic and diving PADI Instructor - 182060)