How do you deal with derision?

[ScubaFeenD]

I live in the NE. Its not by any means DIR central, and lots up here have really huge issues with DIR. In fact, in every dive shop in maryland I have heard extreme HATE against GUE and DIR. Ive even been told Nitrox is stupid and air is the only way to dive, that gear I want will kill me because it isnt "X" brand, and I have heard that cave divers dont know jack about anything in the NE (there is a serious elitism from some in this area regarding how difficult the diving is). If youve watched my posting history you are probably aware that I am no stranger to rash comments about how I feel or what I believe, so you can trust me that I have tried both the "tell em whats what" approach, and the just keep quiet and go about your way approach. I have found that if you are going to get flak you need to either just accept it like jesus (turning the other cheek) or be prepared to make few "outside DIR" friends.

I would recommend just keeping your mouth shut, even though it absolutely kills me every time *I* have to. People are A-holes and the cultlike mindless hate they blame on DIR is just as present in the majority diving community as it ONCE was in DIR. You wont win any arguments and you will just risk alienating misguided people.

And for what its worth. Anyone who hates on GI3 has either never actually seen the DIR videos or isnt very interested in learning the facts--but I guess the "fundies kicked my a$$" thread shows how willing some people are to learn facts.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Oh, and one last comment, that might help you. The more you learn about WHY you are picking what you pick and using what you use, the more productive any discussions you might have will be. The key to have a nice conversation while diverting attention away from vitriol is understanding why you do something, conceding that some things dont have to be for everyone, but then just explaining it is a choice you make.

For instance, few vehement non-DIR tech divers will indicate that they think gas management is not necessary, but some my not believe they need to worry about the potential for sharp edges on brass clips and such. In the future, I think you will find it much easier to get along if you show that you know why you are choosing what you are. Perhaps, though, you might want to think of filling your own nitrox (as others have mentioned).

 

[Blackwood]

You know the old saying "Don't shoot the messenger [because you don't like the message]"?

Well, in my experience, most derisive commentary regarding DIR take the perplexingly opposite form - they shoot the message because they don't like the messenger (a guy who hasn't been vocal about diving in years, and more likely than not has never interacted with the stick-up-the-ass complainant).

I find the mindset more than a little perplexing.

Maybe I'll start calling it DILLL (doing it left left left).

 

[Rainer]

I must say, I've really never run into any serious "anti-DIR" face-to-face conversations. I lived for a few years in MA and dived throughout New England while there: no issues. Haven't run into any here in SoCal either. Haven't done much traveling, but a few trips to the Caribbean, and again, no negativity. Some divers are curious about the gear (and we did get many questions diving dry in Roatan), but so far, just about everyone has been quite good-natured. An occasional few will make light-hearted jokes, but I've never had a remotely venomous in-person exchange. For the most part, I don't talk about "DIR" with strangers. I'd much rather just talk about diving in general. I *do* tend to dive with like-minded individuals, which certainly does cut down on some exposure, but even on open boats, I'll happily chat with anyone. Those conversations just don't center on "dive styles". I guess I've just been lucky with the shops I frequent.

Live and let live.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

You know the old saying "Don't shoot the messenger [because you don't like the message]"?

Well, in my experience, most derisive commentary regarding DIR take the perplexingly opposite form - they shoot the message because they don't like the messenger (a guy who hasn't been vocal about diving in years, and more likely than not has never interacted with the stick-up-the-ass complainant).

I find the mindset more than a little perplexing.

Maybe I'll start calling it DILLL (doing it left left left).

I guess its more than probable that the shop owners who have never met me didnt like me. Ignorance happens.

I must say, I've really never run into any serious "anti-DIR" face-to-face conversations. I lived for a few years in MA and dived throughout New England while there: no issues. Haven't run into any here in SoCal either. Haven't done much traveling, but a few trips to the Caribbean, and again, no negativity. Some divers are curious about the gear (and we did get many questions diving dry in Roatan), but so far, just about everyone has been quite good-natured. An occasional few will make light-hearted jokes, but I've never had a remotely venomous in-person exchange. For the most part, I don't talk about "DIR" with strangers. I'd much rather just talk about diving in general. I *do* tend to dive with like-minded individuals, which certainly does cut down on some exposure, but even on open boats, I'll happily chat with anyone. Those conversations just don't center on "dive styles". I guess I've just been lucky with the shops I frequent.

Live and let live.

Well, I have to say that on a few boats off the coasts here friendliness was the only thing i encountered. I was asked if I was a cave diver (Which i am not), but other than that just had a good time. So there seems to be much less anger and derision than one might expect based on interactions with dive shop folk. But, I assure you, I have definitely heard derision in the shops near me and i was even there long enough for them to learn who I was on SB

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

And for what its worth. Anyone who hates on GI3 has either never actually seen the DIR videos or isnt very interested in learning the facts--but I guess the "fundies kicked my a$$" thread shows how willing some people are to learn facts.

GI3 is probably the main reason for the angst that a lot of divers feel toward DIR. Off the Internet he seems nice enough ... but his internet rants were legendary and in most cases unnecessarily offensive. Add in a handfull of rather vocal young bucks who thought it would be cool to emulate him and you have the origins of the problem we're discussing. Fortunately, most of those folks either quit diving or grew up.

As for the DIR videos, I watched the first couple of DVDs that George and Jarrod produced, and found them to be rather poorly done. Perhaps the later stuff is better ... but for the most part I found them boring. George's choice of attire did bring out a few jokes about plum smugglers, though ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Maybe I'll start calling it DILLL (doing it left left left).

Ah yes ... momma was always fond of saying that two wrongs don't make a right ... but three lefts do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ScubaFeenD]

GI3 is probably the main reason for the angst that a lot of divers feel toward DIR. Off the Internet he seems nice enough ... but his internet rants were legendary and in most cases unnecessarily offensive. Add in a handfull of rather vocal young bucks who thought it would be cool to emulate him and you have the origins of the problem we're discussing. Fortunately, most of those folks either quit diving or grew up.

As for the DIR videos, I watched the first couple of DVDs that George and Jarrod produced, and found them to be rather poorly done. Perhaps the later stuff is better ... but for the most part I found them boring. George's choice of attire did bring out a few jokes about plum smugglers, though ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well, I suppose I should add the disclaimer that i never got to read that rants. Thanks for bringing that up, because i so often forget about those.

The videos, on the other hand, are quite interesting for me. But I am a newb, so all of it is still very interesting for me, and I think they exhibit far less angst and anger than his internet rants did.

 

[Leejnd]

In the past I've been a bit derisive of the DIR label, in large part because I felt the label (NOT the diving strategy) was derisive in and of itself. I have no problem with GUE or UTD or any one of a number of other labels that do not imply the practitioners are the only ones "doing it right." The arrogance of some DIR practitioners early on was rather obnoxious. I think that has changed and I am pleased to count many who utilize these techniques as personal friends. They do not preach about their methods. I fully accept that their methods often lead to much safer diving conditions, and are far more appropriate than mine for a number of diving situations that I do not practice (cave and wreck penetration for example). I think this segment of the dive community has matured over the last decade and cast off certain attitudes that would cause others to criticize it.

One of the first criticisms I heard about DIR had to do with the term, and the fact that divers felt it was derogatory towards divers who are "doing it wrong", so to speak. I know this is something that has been discussed ad infinitum, and is still a sore point out there. I still hear divers making snide comments about it...heck, some members here in Scubaboard have little digs in their signatures, like "Doing it Wrong since 2000" and stuff like that. At first I could sort of understand their feelings, but over time I've decided they're just being rather oversensitive. "Doing it Right" doesn't have to mean right for every diver and every situation - it's just doing it right for THIS particular diving style. Nobody is saying anybody is "doing it wrong" - they are just "doing it differently". In any case, I read somewhere (I think it was from Rainer), that as much as GUE would like the term to go away, it's simply not going to in the current environment where you have more than one agency teaching the same (or largely similar) things. There isn't another term that encompasses this dive philosophy in general...Unified Team Diving would have been good, until someone started an agency with that name! I think everyone needs to just get over being offended by that term.

I totally hear ya, Dr. Bill, about some of the arrogance. I encountered that as well when I first started diving. I've told the story in here before about the time I was on a dive boat in Bali needing a buddy...and there were three DIR divers who walked up to the DM and, right in front of me, told him in no uncertain terms not to buddy me up with them because they don't dive with "dangly divers" (I had my octo in one of those yellow bulbs, and I had a small safety sausage clipped to a d-ring - my only danglies). They spent the whole day on the boat separated from the rest of the divers and acting all holier-than-thou...they were the quintessential arrogant we-dive-better-than-you-and-yer-all-gonna-die DIR divers. But that was back in 2007 and I haven't seen that kind of attitude, at least to that degree, since.

It's strange being on this side of it now, and still finding derision. Ya can't win!

Anyway, this has been an interesting conversation, and I thank everyone for your perspective. I tend to be rather conflict-averse, and just want everyone to be happy. So all of the comments, stories and suggestions are very much appreciated!

 

[ScubaFeenD]

because they don't dive with "dangly divers" (

priceless.