how do you stay alive while gaining experience?

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In that example, I don’t think you can do a beginner cave class without the instructor telling you to that you should not go in a restriction (I was told that one reason is that teammates won’t be able to help you in case of troubles)

If you decide to go against what seems reasonable progression without the training or gaining experience, it’s mostly a personal choice, isn’t it?

Are you asking from the point of view of the person learning, the instructor, the agencies or the community?
 
no my premise is a technical training course is the starting point of gaining experience- id surmise every diving fatality involves people who have certification for what theyre doing
Their instructor failed to impart on them the seriousness their new "licenses to learn"
They will either get so scared they quit or die.
 
not 1)
a step onwards from 2) lets assume they have all the skills associated with a certification

being a mentor/advisor on dive plans, diving with them, offering advise and discussing post dive issues.

to clarify - im asking what is the best way to help a fellow certified diver gain experience and help reduce their exposure to serious misshaps while their going through the experience curve ie passing on your knowledge and experience
Thank you for clarifying. I think this is perfectly reasonable. In a sense, that's what many of us doing Scubaboard every day, answering questions, and offering tips and advice. I'd love it if I had some kind of mentor myself, and do enjoy mentoring others.

If a diver was adequately trained in a course about a skill or type of diving, they should be able to safely perform those skills without assistance, and be aware of their limits. If there is any risk to that diver, I'd argue the instructor didn't do their job, or the diver is being careless. Nobody should be "exposed to serious mishaps" at any point. This is true during a formal class, after one completes a class, or while being mentored.

If you don't know how to mentor some skill 100.0% safely, don't do it. If you really want to teach that skill, you can take courses which teach you to become a dive instructor, and those course should tell you how to teach various skills safely.

For example, in an Open Water class, students will practice skills around losing one's mask, out-of-air, and other similar common problems or emergencies one might face. That skill isn't taught by putting the student in an OOA situation, but instead it's simulated in a very safe and monitored environment.
 
New dives, unknown dive sites and different conditions is the only way to gain experience. To do that you have to learn everything you can about the site before you dive. Being a bit nervous before is normal, but with a sound bailout plan that must be used if in doubt, there’s no reason why any dive can’t be made safely. Take it slow, a nice clean entry and exit, good lines, you can always go back another day. Getting in the water for a new dive is the hardest part.
 
In our dive club, new members cannot do certain dives till they prove themselves on easier dives. This starts at shore dives, then boat dives, then deeper dives till dives to over 40 metres are considered. Certifications do not give anyone the right to jump past proving themselves. The only exception is if someone we trust vouches for a person's ability.
 
Totally agree with this view below. Too many people with lots of money doing course after course and getting no real life experience in diving without instructor/divemaster and then doing tech course or even buying rebreather.
One dive at a time. I see too many people try and get to 100 dives and then hop into the technical world. Some catch on quickly and can do it, but most can't and do get in over their heads. Especially with rebreathers.
 
I’ve had instructors who rate very highly in the public eye and when I left their class I thought to myself that I hadn’t learned anything.

I’ve had instructors that rate very poorly in the public eye and when I left the class I thought to myself wow that was amazing.

I’ve had mentors speed me up and mentors slow me down.

I’ve sped myself up and I’ve slowed myself down.

My .02psi is staying alive while progressing is best done by finding the best instructors you can and treating the cert as a license to start learning at that level; there’s no way an instructor can convey all they know in a short amount of time. I’d run from any instructor who insinuated the opposite. If we don’t know what we don’t know then we sure as phawk don’t know what an instructor doesn’t know.

Ultimately the onus of staying alive is on you and I suggest aggressively fighting hubris.
 
I’ve had instructors who rate very highly in the public eye and when I left their class I thought to myself that I hadn’t learned anything.

I’ve had instructors that rate very poorly in the public eye and when I left the class I thought to myself wow that was amazing.

I’ve had mentors speed me up and mentors slow me down.

I’ve sped myself up and I’ve slowed myself down.

My .02psi is staying alive while progressing is best done by finding the best instructors you can and treating the cert as a license to start learning at that level; there’s no way an instructor can convey all they know in a short amount of time. I’d run from any instructor who insinuated the opposite. If we don’t know what we don’t know then we sure as phawk don’t know what an instructor doesn’t know.

Ultimately the onus of staying alive is on you and I suggest aggressively fighting hubris.
great comment ! when i did my cave course the instructor offered to stay on and dive with me for a few dives - he said he didnt like just cutting people adrift after a course, same when i did my wreck course, he dived with me regularly and imparted his knowledge over many dives
 
great comment ! when i did my cave course the instructor offered to stay on and dive with me for a few dives - he said he didnt like just cutting people adrift after a course, same when i did my wreck course, he dived with me regularly and imparted his knowledge over many dives

I had a bunch of posts deleted this morning so I figure I should make at least one good post to make up for it :wink:
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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