reebok
Contributor
Marty, does your comment include the "white" edition or only the silver or black?
How does a filter really work and what can it do for you?
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Marty, does your comment include the "white" edition or only the silver or black?
Marty Cerven
Contributor
I'm not commenting on your filter tests as I haven't seen anything and like I found comparing filters is not really possible due to the hero2's short comings and awb that makes comparing results pointless side by side IMHO.
I am not making assumptions in any way regarding filters, URPro is proven for quality and results no need to say more. GoPro sometimes does great with a filter and AWB sometimes it just struggles its very hit and miss and the same camera with the same filter can get varied results. Its no doubt URPro does a great job and I have had good results down to 30m with them in favourable filter conditions in earlier gopro's. The 1 was actually the best in awb the 2 and 3 black both go green at random points in blue or green water, filters save this as without they are useless beyond 5m.
The reason for my above post is this.
Have you used it or is it like the plastic lens in the Hero2 white
and your just making things up from pictures and google searches again. Lights are on adjustable arms are they not so how hard is it to tilt them forward a few centimeters. If you actually used the stuff you are so strongly against then maybe it would be a more valid opinion, everyone has them but it also depends on how you base your opinion. If your opinions are based on second hand info or specs and pictures is it really your opinion. 
The close up stuff is just testing I haven't recommended any options, you said macro is not possible with a gopro and you constantly bash the gopro camera's telling everyone how bad they are, yet spend so much time on the gopro sections. I am trying the cheapest first as a test and working my way up to some better ones, I dont get paid for any of this and just do it as a hobby some stuff has been given to me but most has been bought. Testing the concept with cheap stuff is not a bad idea and I am just posting what I am using and showing the results people can make up their own minds.
I just post stuff generally in regards to gopro and I used all the underwater fixes since the first by EOM, I use the SRP stuff myself now as it does the best job at what I want out of the cameras.
I bought all my earlier stuff but I have been testing SRP stuff more recently and obviously as I was testing things before they were released they were given to me. I first heard of SRP from here before they made the first BlurFix which I liked and used over all the other options around at that time which I also bought. Backscatter then made their gopro underwater housing but its the only thing I never bought, it was similar to the blurfix and I didnt really need any more options and it was the most expensive of the lot in Australia. I bought their flip filter for the hero 2 and didn't like the fact I couldn't open the latch witch is pretty disappointing design from someone that should know much better in terms of underwater equipment and a huge design flaw.
I never asked polar pro for anything but they made a public post asking me if I want to test out their filter and to PM them. I did and they said give us your address details and I haven't heard from them since and that was just after they announced the product moths ago. Had they contacted me privately and then done nothing I would never mention that as no other companies have ever made any public comments asking me to try things for them.
To come out and make a public post and then not even ship such a cheap filter is quite funny I think, no way would I buy one from them after that. Show's a bit about a company and I cant understand the reason for the offer and then nothing. But as I haven't been using the 2's much and only have one left atm it would have been something Id test just to compare as the hero2 isn't my first choice anymore underwater.
Sorry the 3 black is all I have used out of those, in theory the white if similar to the hero1 its based off may have the best underwater AWB still. The Silver does have Cam Raw wb option too like the black but the silver does share the same internals as the 2 and so possibly it will also get a bit noisier with protune enabled. The 2 does show much more noise then the 3 black with protune on but this can be fixed in post with noise reduction if needed. As I have only used hero 1, 2 and 3 Black I can say exactly how the silver and white go underwater but they are upgraded 1's and 2's so the may be similar. I have no reason to get silver and whites so I wont be trying them out any time soon. Multi cam tests are a headache I dont really want when diving so I cant see me doing it. Changing modes on 6 camera's underwater with a 2 button UI whilst surrounded by sharks and getting smashed around by strong surge and current was far from a pleasant experience lol.
But as Cam Raw is the biggest feature advantage over the earlier GoPro I have used 1s and 2s especially for underwater use, it would also be a better platform to test filters on as the WB is fixed. I could easily match 2 hero3 blacks in very poor water conditions on my last dive and get a good WB throughout without much effort. All colour work done in the free cineform studio and only cut and transitioned in premiere pro.
With both the Hero1's and 2's matching 2 cameras shot side by side is nearly impossible on a daylight dive. I am a big 3D fan but this issue is what stopped me from using them much. I needed a filter on the earlier models to get any colours beyond 4-5m depth and there was no easy option for the EOM 3D housing I have. Shooting 3D has 2 cameras side by side shooting the exact same scene and if the images vary so much it makes 3D very hard, when using lights especially at night its not as much of an issue as the AWB is pretty good when shooting in the dark at night. Its just daylight where it freaks out and is still the same with the 3 black in regular wb or the auto modes. The forced WB doesn't give the same scope for setting wb in post and is pretty much the same as auto just forced at a set temperature. This is very limited with 3 choices and unlikely any will be the correct one UW.
I was using 3D since before using filters with the GoPro and this is when I first realized how random the AWB setting is. The thing is that Im not saying you still cant get good video from the regular modes or earlier gopro's its just that results are terribly inconsistant as I found using Hero1 and Hero2 cameras in a 3D housing UW. Also the same when I did my 6 Hero2 side by side tests trying out filters, conditions were poor on that test and so I haven't posted a video yet but plenty of pics showing them in my thread. Using one camera and just accepting what the AWB comes out with some good and some bad you can get good results, better conditions will give much better results but I rarely get great conditions at home only when traveling. I will post the video soon as I was going to add protune modes with the hero2's but this is still full auto wb so results are no different in terms of WB consistancy but it really shows little more then inconsistant AWB in the camera.
Darker filters will likely do better in crappy conditions by forcing the camera to see more red, this reduces overall light and is actually worse for the image but may give a better result at times due to the AWB not giving up as it does many times and just turns green lol. In ideal filter conditions or the green water filters/magenta versions will do much better but I really didnt use this as much as I should in the past due to not having the wet filter option on the blurfix.
I am really looking forward to shooting UW 3D video with the hero3 blacks as matching frames is very easy now and with the smaller flat port filter options should be much easier once the housing comes out.
Darker filters will likely do better in crappy conditions by forcing the camera to see more red, this reduces overall light and is actually worse for the image but may give a better result at times due to the AWB not giving up as it does many times and just turns green lol. In ideal filter conditions or the green water filters/magenta versions will do much better but I really didnt use this as much as I should in the past due to not having the wet filter option on the blurfix.
I am really looking forward to shooting UW 3D video with the hero3 blacks as matching frames is very easy now and with the smaller flat port filter options should be much easier once the housing comes out.
I am not making assumptions in any way regarding filters, URPro is proven for quality and results no need to say more. GoPro sometimes does great with a filter and AWB sometimes it just struggles its very hit and miss and the same camera with the same filter can get varied results. Its no doubt URPro does a great job and I have had good results down to 30m with them in favourable filter conditions in earlier gopro's. The 1 was actually the best in awb the 2 and 3 black both go green at random points in blue or green water, filters save this as without they are useless beyond 5m.
The reason for my above post is this.
Have you used it or is it like the plastic lens in the Hero2 white
and your just making things up from pictures and google searches again. Lights are on adjustable arms are they not so how hard is it to tilt them forward a few centimeters. If you actually used the stuff you are so strongly against then maybe it would be a more valid opinion, everyone has them but it also depends on how you base your opinion. If your opinions are based on second hand info or specs and pictures is it really your opinion. The close up stuff is just testing I haven't recommended any options, you said macro is not possible with a gopro and you constantly bash the gopro camera's telling everyone how bad they are, yet spend so much time on the gopro sections. I am trying the cheapest first as a test and working my way up to some better ones, I dont get paid for any of this and just do it as a hobby some stuff has been given to me but most has been bought. Testing the concept with cheap stuff is not a bad idea and I am just posting what I am using and showing the results people can make up their own minds.
I just post stuff generally in regards to gopro and I used all the underwater fixes since the first by EOM, I use the SRP stuff myself now as it does the best job at what I want out of the cameras.
I bought all my earlier stuff but I have been testing SRP stuff more recently and obviously as I was testing things before they were released they were given to me. I first heard of SRP from here before they made the first BlurFix which I liked and used over all the other options around at that time which I also bought. Backscatter then made their gopro underwater housing but its the only thing I never bought, it was similar to the blurfix and I didnt really need any more options and it was the most expensive of the lot in Australia. I bought their flip filter for the hero 2 and didn't like the fact I couldn't open the latch witch is pretty disappointing design from someone that should know much better in terms of underwater equipment and a huge design flaw.
I never asked polar pro for anything but they made a public post asking me if I want to test out their filter and to PM them. I did and they said give us your address details and I haven't heard from them since and that was just after they announced the product moths ago. Had they contacted me privately and then done nothing I would never mention that as no other companies have ever made any public comments asking me to try things for them.
To come out and make a public post and then not even ship such a cheap filter is quite funny I think, no way would I buy one from them after that. Show's a bit about a company and I cant understand the reason for the offer and then nothing. But as I haven't been using the 2's much and only have one left atm it would have been something Id test just to compare as the hero2 isn't my first choice anymore underwater.
Sorry the 3 black is all I have used out of those, in theory the white if similar to the hero1 its based off may have the best underwater AWB still. The Silver does have Cam Raw wb option too like the black but the silver does share the same internals as the 2 and so possibly it will also get a bit noisier with protune enabled. The 2 does show much more noise then the 3 black with protune on but this can be fixed in post with noise reduction if needed. As I have only used hero 1, 2 and 3 Black I can say exactly how the silver and white go underwater but they are upgraded 1's and 2's so the may be similar. I have no reason to get silver and whites so I wont be trying them out any time soon. Multi cam tests are a headache I dont really want when diving so I cant see me doing it. Changing modes on 6 camera's underwater with a 2 button UI whilst surrounded by sharks and getting smashed around by strong surge and current was far from a pleasant experience lol.
But as Cam Raw is the biggest feature advantage over the earlier GoPro I have used 1s and 2s especially for underwater use, it would also be a better platform to test filters on as the WB is fixed. I could easily match 2 hero3 blacks in very poor water conditions on my last dive and get a good WB throughout without much effort. All colour work done in the free cineform studio and only cut and transitioned in premiere pro.
With both the Hero1's and 2's matching 2 cameras shot side by side is nearly impossible on a daylight dive. I am a big 3D fan but this issue is what stopped me from using them much. I needed a filter on the earlier models to get any colours beyond 4-5m depth and there was no easy option for the EOM 3D housing I have. Shooting 3D has 2 cameras side by side shooting the exact same scene and if the images vary so much it makes 3D very hard, when using lights especially at night its not as much of an issue as the AWB is pretty good when shooting in the dark at night. Its just daylight where it freaks out and is still the same with the 3 black in regular wb or the auto modes. The forced WB doesn't give the same scope for setting wb in post and is pretty much the same as auto just forced at a set temperature. This is very limited with 3 choices and unlikely any will be the correct one UW.
I was using 3D since before using filters with the GoPro and this is when I first realized how random the AWB setting is. The thing is that Im not saying you still cant get good video from the regular modes or earlier gopro's its just that results are terribly inconsistant as I found using Hero1 and Hero2 cameras in a 3D housing UW. Also the same when I did my 6 Hero2 side by side tests trying out filters, conditions were poor on that test and so I haven't posted a video yet but plenty of pics showing them in my thread. Using one camera and just accepting what the AWB comes out with some good and some bad you can get good results, better conditions will give much better results but I rarely get great conditions at home only when traveling. I will post the video soon as I was going to add protune modes with the hero2's but this is still full auto wb so results are no different in terms of WB consistancy but it really shows little more then inconsistant AWB in the camera.
Darker filters will likely do better in crappy conditions by forcing the camera to see more red, this reduces overall light and is actually worse for the image but may give a better result at times due to the AWB not giving up as it does many times and just turns green lol. In ideal filter conditions or the green water filters/magenta versions will do much better but I really didnt use this as much as I should in the past due to not having the wet filter option on the blurfix.
I am really looking forward to shooting UW 3D video with the hero3 blacks as matching frames is very easy now and with the smaller flat port filter options should be much easier once the housing comes out.
Darker filters will likely do better in crappy conditions by forcing the camera to see more red, this reduces overall light and is actually worse for the image but may give a better result at times due to the AWB not giving up as it does many times and just turns green lol. In ideal filter conditions or the green water filters/magenta versions will do much better but I really didnt use this as much as I should in the past due to not having the wet filter option on the blurfix.
I am really looking forward to shooting UW 3D video with the hero3 blacks as matching frames is very easy now and with the smaller flat port filter options should be much easier once the housing comes out.
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OP
Marty
How long have you been doing underwater video or holding a camera in water?
It shows from your video rig that you use video light as they were torches and the same your mate in your last video
If you want to start making some improvements start pointing them straight ahead so you create less backscatter
Lights for wide angle have to be oriented forward, parallel to the port and move inner or outward depending on the distance of the subject
It does not need more testing that what has been done in the last 30 years to demonstrate so we don't need a tray that positions the lights away form the light axis and reduces the angle of coverage of the lights itself like the SRP does
There must be some good UW photographer or videographers close to where you live I suggest you pay them a visit instead of being so dismissive and pretending that as you do things in a certain way then it is right
Meanwhile maybe have a look here https://www.backscatter.com/learn/article/article.php?ID=15
I have the polarpro filter here do you want me to post some pictures? Besides it is a red filter and I live close to a quarry so not the best test environment
And no you don't need to do a dive side by side to know what to expect from a filter, I can have a look to one in my hand and pretty much know what to expect, take into account that there is no magic recipe one filter can do better in one location and worse on another depending on the colour temperature of the water, as people dive in different places is quite difficult to find the ideal solution to all problems
Besides I have not said that this is better than URPRO have I?
How long have you been doing underwater video or holding a camera in water?
It shows from your video rig that you use video light as they were torches and the same your mate in your last video
If you want to start making some improvements start pointing them straight ahead so you create less backscatter
Lights for wide angle have to be oriented forward, parallel to the port and move inner or outward depending on the distance of the subject
It does not need more testing that what has been done in the last 30 years to demonstrate so we don't need a tray that positions the lights away form the light axis and reduces the angle of coverage of the lights itself like the SRP does
There must be some good UW photographer or videographers close to where you live I suggest you pay them a visit instead of being so dismissive and pretending that as you do things in a certain way then it is right
Meanwhile maybe have a look here https://www.backscatter.com/learn/article/article.php?ID=15
I have the polarpro filter here do you want me to post some pictures? Besides it is a red filter and I live close to a quarry so not the best test environment
And no you don't need to do a dive side by side to know what to expect from a filter, I can have a look to one in my hand and pretty much know what to expect, take into account that there is no magic recipe one filter can do better in one location and worse on another depending on the colour temperature of the water, as people dive in different places is quite difficult to find the ideal solution to all problems
Besides I have not said that this is better than URPRO have I?
Marty Cerven
Contributor
Do you know who said that? its you on the Polar Pro video on yt
this from someone that is commenting and rightfully so on the low quality macro filters I have used on some tests. Yet this same person says they can prove how physics of an optical box LOL, sorry never heard of it before is better then a URPro filter dome using proper optical plastic made by URPro, in a shape used for lots of high grade optics such as glasses and lenses for 100s of years. And you have the physics to prove it My friend in the video has never shot underwater before last week so he did ok, we did 2 1hr+ dives there so not all times the cameras are actually running anyway and I just left his running and told him just to shoot stuff when he sees and take aim. He had fun and got some half decent footage, its meant to be fun and not so serious that you have to follow everything written on backscatters site as the only way to do things and be punished for doing things differently.
So are you saying your seeing lots of backscatter in that video because Im not, but can you tell me where there is an issue of backscatter in the video? Im willing to learn but I dont see what I need to change if backscatter isn't an issue in even such murky waters with lots of particles floating around.
Here are 3 videos shot recently using the SRP tray and lights setup are they terribly lit and can you see an issue with backscatter if so please point them out to me?
I never said I am a pro just shoot video as a hobby, the videos are good enough for me and the close to 400k people that have seen my videos on yt and vimeo seem to think they are ok, though according to you again a while back gopro's arent even good enough for memories or yt. 200m+ people have watched the gopro channel and all they have are ads, Its not a popularity contest and sure everyone wants their videos viewed but Im just going on another unfounded statement of yours re gopro's and yt not being good enough.
Here is the pic of the setup from the link you gave, the light arms are starting out what look even further behind then what my GoPro does on the SRP tray, so I really dont see your point in that case of the GoPro design. The beauty is that the arms are bendable and can be put wherever you want just like on the SRP tray is it not.
Shouldn't the lights be coming out in line with the lens in this case because having them behind must be impossible to bring them forward with bendable arms? Or does this not apply in this example from the official rules to UW video that must not be broken by any casual diver or anyone that wants to make a dive product. Unless that is using an optical box with cheap plastic and a generic filter approved by the same person that told me you cant ever cheap out on optics.
Again its all opinions, I have mine you have yours though I am just seeing today how many of your comments are completely baseless, which is what I have some issue with them. I will gladly take advice from people but of those few comments of yours I have highlighted I find it quite hard to take your opinion seriously anymore.
OP
Marty you lack the understanding of the physics behind and now try to climb on some things that do not relate trying to put them together
The reason why that dome SRP does not perform well (am not saying anything compared to polarpro) is because there is a design flaw similar to the one of the SRP tray (no point comparing it to a video housing where the positioning or arms depends on other design decisions and also a camcorder has different field of view)
The gopro is a small camera with around 110 degrees field of view in water, video lights are designed for cameras with 65-80 degrees fov, in order to illuminate the subject at the distance the gopro can focus the arms need to be further away. Why would someone spend more money for a tray that needs longer arms than need to be?
Anyway this is pointless maybe you can stop hijiacking the thread and just wait until you see what the issues with this dome are? Hint it is not that difficult just look at all the other filters on the market place and how they are designed. Were they all waiting for the genius of SRP?
Finally I have 4 cameras for UW video all better than the gopro that I only use for teaching purpose, is it surprising I shoot with other set
ups?? Do you think the gopro has different principles of other devices that exist??
If you have knowledge to share you should share it with your friend instead of keeping it for yourself and tell him to point the lights forward
If you have comments to make on the blog post on filters or think anything written there is wrong feel free to put a comment there
The reason why that dome SRP does not perform well (am not saying anything compared to polarpro) is because there is a design flaw similar to the one of the SRP tray (no point comparing it to a video housing where the positioning or arms depends on other design decisions and also a camcorder has different field of view)
The gopro is a small camera with around 110 degrees field of view in water, video lights are designed for cameras with 65-80 degrees fov, in order to illuminate the subject at the distance the gopro can focus the arms need to be further away. Why would someone spend more money for a tray that needs longer arms than need to be?
Anyway this is pointless maybe you can stop hijiacking the thread and just wait until you see what the issues with this dome are? Hint it is not that difficult just look at all the other filters on the market place and how they are designed. Were they all waiting for the genius of SRP?
Finally I have 4 cameras for UW video all better than the gopro that I only use for teaching purpose, is it surprising I shoot with other set
ups?? Do you think the gopro has different principles of other devices that exist??
If you have knowledge to share you should share it with your friend instead of keeping it for yourself and tell him to point the lights forward
If you have comments to make on the blog post on filters or think anything written there is wrong feel free to put a comment there
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Marty Cerven
Contributor
Id like to know the design flaw, sorry for hijacking your thread but you did say that I dont know what I am doing and my setup will cause backscatter. I show you videos showing it doesnt and your saying there is a design flaw in the setup so can you explain where that design flaw is effecting those videos and hw using a traditional tray would have made them any better.
If your talking about the way the tray is setup in my dive setup video, that is just to show it and get it all in the video. The lights bend and you can easily adjust them as needed, I dont see how that is a design flaw. Your saying the SRP filter doesnt work well because of a design flaw then why dont you state it. But as I have pointed out multiple false comments you made already just in this and the other thread why should your idea of perfect physics have anything to do with it.
See you say your not comparing it to the polar pro but you state this on polar pros video on youtube that you linked to in your first post.
Thats obviously regarding polar pro so you need to be a little more consistent with your opinions. If your not going to post what your talking about then why start a thread here and just post a link to your blog. What is the purpose of this thread is it just to get hits on your blog, If your trying to hype it up after all you inconsistent random comments I dont feel like reading the blog anyway sorry.
For someone that doesn't like shooting with GoPro's I really dont see why you spend so much time on the GoPro section of the forums.
Im done with hijacking your thread so you can respond to my questions or just let it go, I will be fine either way but Id love to have actually something to back up such statements your making.
If your talking about the way the tray is setup in my dive setup video, that is just to show it and get it all in the video. The lights bend and you can easily adjust them as needed, I dont see how that is a design flaw. Your saying the SRP filter doesnt work well because of a design flaw then why dont you state it. But as I have pointed out multiple false comments you made already just in this and the other thread why should your idea of perfect physics have anything to do with it.
See you say your not comparing it to the polar pro but you state this on polar pros video on youtube that you linked to in your first post.
Thats obviously regarding polar pro so you need to be a little more consistent with your opinions. If your not going to post what your talking about then why start a thread here and just post a link to your blog. What is the purpose of this thread is it just to get hits on your blog, If your trying to hype it up after all you inconsistent random comments I dont feel like reading the blog anyway sorry.
For someone that doesn't like shooting with GoPro's I really dont see why you spend so much time on the GoPro section of the forums.
Im done with hijacking your thread so you can respond to my questions or just let it go, I will be fine either way but Id love to have actually something to back up such statements your making.
OP
Nope the post on the polar pro youtube page was to address the SRP dealer that got angry at it
Stay tuned next saturday I will do the write up on the SRP dome
The flaw with the tray is basically that it costs more than others and puts you in a situation where you could cast a shadow on the picture and need at least another 10" of arm to have the same results you would have with a flat one
If you still do not comprehend why after seeing the picture about the light beams there is not much I can help you with right here
I have no interested in polarpro or other makers and I like to help everyone including gopro users instead of having them lurking in the dark and spending money they don't need to spend believing in miracles of course this is just an opinion I am not stopping anybody buying any product
Stay tuned next saturday I will do the write up on the SRP dome
The flaw with the tray is basically that it costs more than others and puts you in a situation where you could cast a shadow on the picture and need at least another 10" of arm to have the same results you would have with a flat one
If you still do not comprehend why after seeing the picture about the light beams there is not much I can help you with right here
I have no interested in polarpro or other makers and I like to help everyone including gopro users instead of having them lurking in the dark and spending money they don't need to spend believing in miracles of course this is just an opinion I am not stopping anybody buying any product
Marty Cerven
Contributor
A basic standard light arm is sufficient no idea why you would need an extra 10" beyond a regular tray light arm. Design flaw casting shadows well would be exactly the same in the picture above if you didn't have the arms to extend forward as in the picture.
Design flaw is price Backscatter : Underwater Camera, Underwater Video Housing, Underwater Photography, Waterproof Camera backscatter the trays start at $90 up to $350. they arent out to make the cheapest and nastiest products and you yourself would agree these are rarely going to be your best options.
Design plus lots more mounting options with the slide trays, can be used for stationary shots as its very stable even with a bit of surge layed down either flat or on the handles.
For someone not telling people what to buy you are pretty clear they should never buy anything from SRP, I dont care what people buy. I just use what I use and as I am part of the GoPro user forums I always got into a habit of mentioning what is used each time. Thats why when I mention the macro filters its not like a buy recommendation or anything just showing them in action and people can get an idea of what to expect.
I dont sell anything or work for anyone related in any way to underwater video's I actually work for myself in a completely unrelated area. This is purely a hobby and I got some great help and advice early on so thought id share anything I have if anyone is interested.
Design flaw is price Backscatter : Underwater Camera, Underwater Video Housing, Underwater Photography, Waterproof Camera backscatter the trays start at $90 up to $350. they arent out to make the cheapest and nastiest products and you yourself would agree these are rarely going to be your best options.
Design plus lots more mounting options with the slide trays, can be used for stationary shots as its very stable even with a bit of surge layed down either flat or on the handles.
For someone not telling people what to buy you are pretty clear they should never buy anything from SRP, I dont care what people buy. I just use what I use and as I am part of the GoPro user forums I always got into a habit of mentioning what is used each time. Thats why when I mention the macro filters its not like a buy recommendation or anything just showing them in action and people can get an idea of what to expect.
I dont sell anything or work for anyone related in any way to underwater video's I actually work for myself in a completely unrelated area. This is purely a hobby and I got some great help and advice early on so thought id share anything I have if anyone is interested.
OP
Marty the srp tray like all their products are built with top quality materials that make then expensive for me a gopro set up needs to be overall under $500 including all accessories and a memory card and spare battery
I wish they consulted with more people with practical experience when it comes to certain design decisions but obviously they don't
Anyway I don't think it is very productive that you and I have this kind of exchange
Would it help if I write down what a tray should or not be and why regardless of brand?
I wish they consulted with more people with practical experience when it comes to certain design decisions but obviously they don't
Anyway I don't think it is very productive that you and I have this kind of exchange
Would it help if I write down what a tray should or not be and why regardless of brand?
Marty Cerven
Contributor
I agree this discussion is not getting anywhere but you can have your own opinion its just when you try and make it like only your opinion counts and its definitive. Kind of like telling people the silver has a plastic lens based on nothing, sure you don't want or would never buy the tray but you almost make out like it shouldn't even exist. Which is the odd thing, there are some things I would never buy but it doesn't bother me that others would or that its for sale its peoples choice. Its good your trying to help out but if your going to make such claims then best to have more then written words to back things up and not based all on theories but actual use and testing.
You don't think my videos are good enough apparently and this is mostly due to the setup being terribly engineered, that along with my inexperiance so it creates terrible results. Whatever issues you say are with the setup as far as I can tell aren't apparent in use and have never been an issue so how can you say they are without even using something. So I think your basing your opinion again on no actual facts otherwise you would say where those major design issues are showing in the videos I posted because if they don't they aren't there simple.
All I ask is you do more then Google searches to come up with opinions and looking at photos and specs aren't the same as using something and trying it out. I don't know your background but someone claiming to have a strong background in physics making some of those claims you made are not what you'd expect from someone that knows what they are talking about.
How many products have you made and how well have they done? You seem to know everything about how all things must be made but I'd love to have an idea of your engineering background. Just to give your claims a bit of validity.
Like your thread topic here your claiming to know more then everyone else on filters, and you want to set things straight. What are you basing your opinions on how can you be claiming some theory of yours shows why something is good or bad and better then what URPro know. URPro is in contact with the guys at SRP and surely no matter what your knowledge in terms of filters is, its lacking compared to the people that pretty much invented it many years ago. You do like to bash SRP but stand by URPro which is the ironic thing as they work together on these products.
Your thread topic is not asking a question, its worded to say you are telling how they work, this would be different if it was intended as a discussion with you asking but your telling. Telling people how and why things work you need to give some idea of why your view has any credibility. I pointed out all the random things you posted which shows the lack of credibility to anyone make such outlandish and false claims as in the plastic lens and many other things. I find it hard to believe any claims of yours so why should people believe you is my main question to you.
You don't think my videos are good enough apparently and this is mostly due to the setup being terribly engineered, that along with my inexperiance so it creates terrible results. Whatever issues you say are with the setup as far as I can tell aren't apparent in use and have never been an issue so how can you say they are without even using something. So I think your basing your opinion again on no actual facts otherwise you would say where those major design issues are showing in the videos I posted because if they don't they aren't there simple.
All I ask is you do more then Google searches to come up with opinions and looking at photos and specs aren't the same as using something and trying it out. I don't know your background but someone claiming to have a strong background in physics making some of those claims you made are not what you'd expect from someone that knows what they are talking about.
How many products have you made and how well have they done? You seem to know everything about how all things must be made but I'd love to have an idea of your engineering background. Just to give your claims a bit of validity.
Like your thread topic here your claiming to know more then everyone else on filters, and you want to set things straight. What are you basing your opinions on how can you be claiming some theory of yours shows why something is good or bad and better then what URPro know. URPro is in contact with the guys at SRP and surely no matter what your knowledge in terms of filters is, its lacking compared to the people that pretty much invented it many years ago. You do like to bash SRP but stand by URPro which is the ironic thing as they work together on these products.
Your thread topic is not asking a question, its worded to say you are telling how they work, this would be different if it was intended as a discussion with you asking but your telling. Telling people how and why things work you need to give some idea of why your view has any credibility. I pointed out all the random things you posted which shows the lack of credibility to anyone make such outlandish and false claims as in the plastic lens and many other things. I find it hard to believe any claims of yours so why should people believe you is my main question to you.
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