How does DEMA affect the average diver

[cool_hardware52]

I tend to believe that anything occurring at DEMA could be done ... and probably more efficiently ... at the various regional dive shows and expos that occur throughout the country every year. I think these shows have a lot more impact on end users and local dive businesses than a centralized show that is exclusionary and remote from almost everyone who participates.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Keep in mind that the travel expenses, and freight expenses (booth and related goods) are about the same for me to attend the Tacoma Show, or BTS etc. as it is for me to attend DEMA.

The actual booth space may be less, but the booth space is only a portion of the cost.

Add in the time away from the my shop and attending 1/2 dozen local shows annually will easily exceed one DEMA.

This is particularly burdensome for makers of "heavy gear". The guys who can walk in the morning the show opens with a stack of brochures and little or no product can travel fast and light.

That's one reason why the dive travel / resort / destination / booths are well represented.

More local shows may well be the replacement for DEMA, but it's certainly not more efficient for the industry.

Tobin

 

[Colliam7]

I have already said I believe that DEMA at least indirectly influences the 'basic fun diver'. How much varies across individuals. Just because someone says they 'never knew DEMA existed', or doesn't know exactly what 'D E M A' stands for, doesn't mean they are not impacted in some way. Taking it a step further, I also believe DEMA as configured apparently offers manufacturers something that they want, at least at present. Many of the comments in the thread seem seem to be approaching the DEMA issue on an ‘either-or’ basis. That may not be optimal.

First, what is wrong with a ‘dealer only’, or ‘buyer only’ show, if it works for the manufacturers? I certainly don’t disagree with the comments about having end user exposure and input. But why does that have to be DEMA? Why can’t it be print advertising? Why can’t it be regional shows? (I mentioned BTS in an earlier post, and that is an excellent example of a very well-attended regional meeting.) Why can’t it be small ‘seminars’ at a number of LDS in various states? And, why can’t it be this IN ADDITION to DEMA. While some of us as individual users may be convinced that DEMA is unnecessary, or that the same outcome could be accomplished through regional activities (or even resent the fact that we are not invited to attend), I haven’t yet seen a lot of posting from manufacturers suggesting that available sales data necessarily supports that view – I am not saying it isn’t valid, only that it comes from the perspective of many of us whose ‘skin in the game’ is more limited. I am happy to let market economics influence the manufacturers’ decisions. Some manufacturers may decide that DEMA isn’t worth it, and stop participating. Fine. But, apparently enough still do to make it financially attractive to continue with the current plan. Putting myself in a manufacturers position, I want to get the broadest possible exposure, for the smallest investment, to the specific people who buy, in volume, from me. And, in many cases (carefully avoiding saying ‘always’, ‘never’, or ‘only&#8217 the people who buy from manufacturers are shops, or wholesalers, or on line vendors, NOT individual end users. I may passionately care if an end user might really like to see my gear, but that may not help my sales if I don’t have a distributor near that person, to provide the opportunity for them to go in and fondle the gear. If I have limited time (3 exhibit days for example) at an expensive show event, I want to be sure that the people who come by my booth are my target audience – I don’t really need to be talking to Joe Blow from Kokomo about a dive light, while I keep a LDS owner standing there waiting to talk about an order for 20 dive lights plus 20 BCDs, that would come if he/she decides to pick up my line. Sure, if I create demand for my light by talking to Joe, it may influence a LDS to carry my line (if there are 30 Joes who take the time to actually talk to the shop owner). But, and God strike me down for prideful behavior, I actually think I am probably more persuasive than Joe with regard to influencing that shop owner, and I can talk volume pricing, and advertising support, to the owner / dealer, which Joe can’t. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to have some exposure to Joe, and a 1000 like him, but there may be more efficient ways to do that (print ads, displays in shops, an attractive corporate website that directs potential customers to my distributors) than trying to go to 20 regional shows. Just a thought.

 

[Scott L]

Dude, that you would describe ScubaKevDM as a "hot model" speaks volumes!

Funny! You won't find it in any Harvard cases studies but hire the girls. All in good fun!

 

[snepdiver]

I fear we, as an industry, may never live down this impression. How sad.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

Not all divers feel this way. I love Dive Sports as well as a few more local to me.

However, There are a few dive shops in Fl. that I hate so I just don't give them my business.

For me the best way to see whats out there is the internet anyway. When I find something that I think I might want to "get my hands on" I go local and look.

I still, Like Mike_S said, Would like to see more local "consumer" shows. Even a couple of hundred miles would not be out of the question for me.

 

[The Chairman]

Some manufacturers may decide that DEMA isn’t worth it, and stop participating. Fine. But, apparently enough still do to make it financially attractive to continue with the current plan.

The face of DEMA has changed dramatically. Rather than being a "Gear Show" it has become more and more travel oriented.

Also, it's not just the manufacturers that are deciding to stop participating. I just got off the phone with a local manufacturer's rep who was complaining that shops less than 50 miles away from Orlando have decided not to waste their time to show up this year! WOW! I hope that his pre-DEMA assessment is way off base. Perhaps to be safe, I'll bring a good book or a pack of playing cards!

 

[mike_s]

I still, Like Mike_S said, Would like to see more local "consumer" shows. Even a couple of hundred miles would not be out of the question for me.

Oddly enough, the popular time for dive shows seems to be in the winter. I guess folks are diving once it gets warm.

So... They started a dive show in Atlanta. (somewhat close to you).

Seemed like a great idea! Except they put it the weekend before Memorial Day. Well heck, lots of people go diving that weekend because the rates go up at the beach the next weekend!

so attendance was down. Vendors quit coming. The show folded after only about 2 years.

I hate it... but it happens.

 

[snepdiver]

So... They started a dive show in Atlanta. (somewhat close to you).

Seemed like a great idea! Except they put it the weekend before Memorial Day. Well heck, lots of people go diving that weekend because the rates go up at the beach the next weekend!

so attendance was down. Vendors quit coming. The show folded after only about 2 years.

Now thats some fine planning.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I have already said I believe that DEMA at least indirectly influences the 'basic fun diver'. How much varies across individuals. Just because someone says they 'never knew DEMA existed', or doesn't know exactly what 'D E M A' stands for, doesn't mean they are not impacted in some way. Taking it a step further, I also believe DEMA as configured apparently offers manufacturers something that they want, at least at present. Many of the comments in the thread seem seem to be approaching the DEMA issue on an ‘either-or’ basis. That may not be optimal.

First, what is wrong with a ‘dealer only’, or ‘buyer only’ show, if it works for the manufacturers? I certainly don’t disagree with the comments about having end user exposure and input. But why does that have to be DEMA? Why can’t it be print advertising? Why can’t it be regional shows? (I mentioned BTN in an earlier post, and that is an excellent example of a very well-attended regional meeting.) Why can’t it be small ‘seminars’ at a number of LDS in various states? And, why can’t it be this IN ADDITION to DEMA. While some of us as individual users may be convinced that DEMA is unnecessary, or that the same outcome could be accomplished through regional activities (or even resent the fact that we are not invited to attend), I haven’t yet seen a lot of posting from manufacturers suggesting that available sales data necessarily supports that view – I am not saying it isn’t valid, only that it comes from the perspective of many of us whose ‘skin in the game’ is more limited. I am happy to let market economics influence the manufacturers’ decisions. Some manufacturers may decide that DEMA isn’t worth it, and stop participating. Fine. But, apparently enough still do to make it financially attractive to continue with the current plan. Putting myself in a manufacturers position, I want to get the broadest possible exposure, for the smallest investment, to the specific people who buy, in volume, from me. And, in many cases (carefully avoiding saying ‘always’, ‘never’, or ‘only’) the people who buy from manufacturers are shops, or wholesalers, or on line vendors, NOT individual end users. I may passionately care if an end user might really like to see my gear, but that may not help my sales if I don’t have a distributor near that person, to provide the opportunity for them to go in and fondle the gear. If I have limited time (3 exhibit days for example) at an expensive show event, I want to be sure that the people who come by my booth are my target audience – I don’t really need to be talking to Joe Blow from Kokomo about a dive light, while I keep a LDS owner standing there waiting to talk about an order for 20 dive lights plus 20 BCDs, that would come if he/she decides to pick up my line. Sure, if I create demand for my light by talking to Joe, it may influence a LDS to carry my line (if there are 30 Joes who take the time to actually talk to the shop owner). But, and God strike me down for prideful behavior, I actually think I am probably more persuasive than Joe with regard to influencing that shop owner, and I can talk volume pricing, and advertising support, to the owner / dealer, which Joe can’t. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to have some exposure to Joe, and a 1000 like him, but there may be more efficient ways to do that (print ads, displays in shops, an attractive corporate website that directs potential customers to my distributors) than trying to go to 20 regional shows. Just a thought.

This is all really good stuff and you bring up many great points.
The only reason I think it's important to give Joe Blow a chance to see the gear first hand is because there are dive shop owners out there that for whatever reason don't want to carry a line that many end users might see very valuable. I see (some) dive shop owners who are very narrow minded and not willing to step out of the pink fin and poodle jacket market. It's their shop and they can run it how they want, but to have a dive shop owner with a bad attitude stand between the consumer and the manufacturer, at least in the introduction phase, might not be in the best interest of the manufacturers who might have their product misrepresented or not represented at all.
But you also bring up a good point, why not have dema and several consumer shows. My thinking is if time and money are limited, manufacturers overall might get more bang for the buck at consumer shows. Yeah the proffesional shows are more, well, proffesional. But even though consumer shows can be a pain in the ass, at least you're dealing with someone that can create demand at their LDS for the cool piece of dive gear they saw. So in essence they would be creating ground swell interest from the bottom and not trickle down and filtered information and resulting interest through a dive shop.

 

[Wookie]

Most of the travel folks do do both DEMA and the consumer shows. We need the national show to talk to the dive shops from other parts of the country, and we do the local shows because the local shops don't necessarily sell us. I get more customers at BTS than at DEMA. The folks from New York/New Jersey/Pennsylvania/Connecticut are diving fools. They dive in quarry's, on wrecks, in puddles, in the ocean, in Florida. I'll do that show forever again. I probably won't do DEMA again after this year. I will spend my money showing at consumer shows and just attend DEMA for the parties.

It used to mean that showing at DEMA meant you were "in the business". Now, It's just a show.

 

[cool_hardware52]

But you also bring up a good point, why not have dema and several consumer shows.

All shows cost money and take time. While I enjoy meeting my customers it's very difficult for smaller firms to devote the time and dollars to attending every local consumer show.

Every diver I'm sure would love to have a local show with every manufacturer in attendance with their entire line on display, but this too is a "tax" on the industry. The dollars to pay for these shows ultimately comes out of the end users pocket.

I'm sure local shows will continue to be part of the answer, and I plan to increase the number I exhibit at, but a mix of shows and full use of the tools the internet provides is more likely to be what diving, and other similar sports based industries use to get information into the hands of the end user.

"Conventions" or "TradeShows" are waning, the high cost for both the attendees and the exhibitors are much harder to justify in an era when much of the information customers seek can be transmitted via the internet.

Tobin