How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?

[boulderjohn]

That wasn't a vacation, that was work.

The point is, however, it is fairly easy to not be dependent on an LDS for air fills.

The beginning of this line of discussion may have gotten lost. The originating hypothesis was that a certain critical mass of divers is needed to sustain a dive industry as we know it. That is more than the LDS--it is everything associated with diving as a commercial enterprise, including dive-oriented resorts, liveaboards, etc. I used to dive in Cozumel with an older DM , a Cozumel native who remembered the island before Cousteau visited and said, "Hey! There's great diving here!" It was a sparsely populated island marked by utter, unrelenting poverty. The dive business brought pretty much everything that is there now.

I have no doubt that if the whole system were to collapse, the hard core divers would still be able to dive, but I am trying to imagine a scenario in which I describe our vacation plans to my wife:

Well, dear, we are all set for a week on Bonaire. Of course, now that so few people go there, the inter-island airline has gone out of business, so we will have to fly to Aruba, where I have chartered a boat to take us to the Bonaire. I have made arrangements with a cargo plane to carry our tanks and compressor. Of course, once I had made those arrangements, I found out it would not cost me much more to bring some industrial sized O2 tanks so that we can blend nitrox while we are there.

Since there is no real reason to go to Bonaire without diving, the hotels are pretty much shut down, but we can bring a tent and stay right on the shore--no wasted time traveling after breakfast! I also found out that the truck rental operators are all shut down as well, but the wild donkeys are still there--we can catch a couple and use them to haul equipment. There are no dive boats operating, so we won't be able to get to Kleine Bonaire. We will also have to practice our repelling to get to one of the best sites.​

OK, maybe an exaggeration, but I think a lot of people like going to dive areas and having expected services all ready to go and don't want to have to bring their own tanks and compressors.

 

[Thalassamania]

The beginning of this line of discussion may have gotten lost. The originating hypothesis was that a certain critical mass of divers is needed to sustain a dive industry as we know it. That is more than the LDS--it is everything associated with diving as a commercial enterprise, including dive-oriented resorts, liveaboards, etc. I used to dive in Cozumel with an older DM , a Cozumel native who remembered the island before Cousteau visited and said, "Hey! There's great diving here!" It was a sparsely populated island marked by utter, unrelenting poverty. The dive business brought pretty much everything that is there now.

And reduced the quality of the diving significantly. Same with the Caymans, the ABCs, the Bahamas, etc. To paraphrase Inherit the Wind, "... but the fish will lose their wonder and the water will taste of gasoline."

I have no doubt that if the whole system were to collapse, the hard core divers would still be able to dive,

I guess I must be hard core.

but I am trying to imagine a scenario in which I describe our vacation plans to my wife:

Well, dear, we are all set for a week on Bonaire. Of course, now that so few people go there, the inter-island airline has gone out of business, so we will have to fly to Aruba, where I have chartered a boat to take us to the Bonaire. I have made arrangements with a cargo plane to carry our tanks and compressor. Of course, once I had made those arrangements, I found out it would not cost me much more to bring some industrial sized O2 tanks so that we can blend nitrox while we are there.

Since there is no real reason to go to Bonaire without diving, the hotels are pretty much shut down, but we can bring a tent and stay right on the shore--no wasted time traveling after breakfast! I also found out that the truck rental operators are all shut down as well, but the wild donkeys are still there--we can catch a couple and use them to haul equipment. There are no dive boats operating, so we won't be able to get to Kleine Bonaire. We will also have to practice our repelling to get to one of the best sites.​

OK, maybe an exaggeration, but I think a lot of people like going to dive areas and having expected services all ready to go and don't want to have to bring their own tanks and compressors.

Exaggeration, or no ... sounds good to me, the chance to dive where no one has scared the fish, or broken and silted out the coral, or put fake wrecks on the bottom to try and make up for their deprecations while calling it progress and advertising it as an "adventure." Sorry about your lifestyle not fitting in to the environment, but you've got the solution, change the environment to fit your lifestyle ... go for it. BTW, a liveaboard offshore does solve all those problems for you, just about anywhere in the world. A few years back a passel of us did what was essentially a very comfortable liveaboard, diving up at the North Pole from a Russian Icebreaker.

 

[boulderjohn]

And reduced the quality of the diving significantly. Same with the Caymans, the ABCs, the Bahamas, etc. To paraphrase Inherit the Wind, "... but the fish will lose their wonder and the water will taste of gasoline."
I guess I must be hard core.
Exaggeration, or no ... sounds good to me, the change to dive where on on has scared the fish, or broken and silted out the coral, or put fake wrecks on the bottom to try and make up for their deprecations while calling it progress and advertising it as an "adventure." Sorry about your lifestyle not fitting in to the environment, but you've got the solution, change the environment to fit your lifestyle ... go for it. BTW, a liveaboard offshore does solve all those problems for you, just about anywhere in the world. I've done was essentially very comfortable liveaboard diving up at the North Pole from a Russian Icebreaker.

Except that if there are not enough divers to support the existence of commercial land operations, there will not be enough divers to support commercial liveaboards, either.

 

[soldaten1940]

I think its okay, but we're woefully ignorant of rules about touching reefs, playing with local life, using frog kicks in high-silt environments for those behind us, etc.

 

[Web Monkey]

Except that if there are not enough divers to support the existence of commercial land operations, there will not be enough divers to support commercial liveaboards, either.

You make it sound like there was no diving before PADI and friends. Believe it or not, the certification agencies didn't invent SCUBA, and there were demand regulators before there were C-Cards.

Terry

 

[Thalassamania]

Except that if there are not enough divers to support the existence of commercial land operations, there will not be enough divers to support commercial liveaboards, either.

Au contrair, mon ami. Many of us were diving off vessels in the 60 to 200 foot range that had compressors aboard and accommodations for a week or more, long before the first land based diving resort ever opened its door.

 

[captain]

Do any of you honestly believe that if all C cards disappeared tommorrow there would be no scuba. There probably would be more, the big L word would disappear as a stick to control who gets to dive under what conditions. Shops would sell air and gear to anyone, boats would take anyone who could pay the charter fee.

 

[Slonda828]

Do any of you honestly believe that if all C cards disappeared tommorrow there would be no scuba. There probably would be more, the big L word would disappear as a stick to control who gets to dive under what conditions. Shops would sell air and gear to anyone, boats would take anyone who could pay the charter fee.

I have to agree with Captain here. I dove in Greece for a while with no C card at all. The Navy had air fill stations, plenty of people have air fill stations. I bet I could dive vintage gear more often if everyone and their brother wasn't worried about covering their butts. I bet their boat fees would be cheaper if they could just have you sign a general waiver and let you dive however you wanted. I must admit that I am a big person on growing diving as a sport. This does not mean that we have to grow it to encourage people to suckle at the teet of the agencies and take a specialty for everything from wearing a drysuit to learning how to use a compass.

 

[DCBC]

This does not mean that we have to grow it to encourage people to suckle at the teet of the agencies and take a specialty for everything from wearing a drysuit to learning how to use a compass.

I totally agree. The idea of certification is a good one; but I think that it must translate to tangible knowledge and skill. Who knows, maybe things will eventually revert into how it use to be; when the cards actually meant a lot more than they do today.

 

[SteveR1952]

i was originally certifed in 1980. I was one of 4 other Volunteer Rescue Squad folks that "passed the test" to go on with the training. The test was following a 100 foot line in 10 feet of water wearing very basic gear in a farm pond with zero visibility. The thought process was if you did not freak out bumping into stuff and stiking your hands in pond muck while hand over handing the rope the distance you would be OK to do it on a regualar basis looking for bodies etc. 20 started the test and only 4 made it the whole way.

The instruction was a unique blend of OW and Rescue along with Search and Recovery and a few other things rolled in together. We did the whole course in 4 days. 4 12-hour days. Day one was class room...study...answer questions..take a test...repeat on the next section. Day two was 12+ hours in a pool. Days 3 and 4 were all done in a rock quarry 100 miles away. It was cold and we had poorly fitting thin suits, no hoods, no gloves. It was a while ago but this is what I remember from the course:

-Surface swim from shore to center of quarry towing gear while wearing only mask and fins. Sink your gear on a 15 foot submerged platform. Surface dive and put on your gear. Surface, repeat.

-Compass work plotting and swiming various search patterns.

-Search and recover 200#dummies from sunken aircraft, VWMinibus and car.

-CPR, and other EMT related skills at the surface and on shore; dragging human bodies all over the water surface and below the surface.

-Deep water orientation. Black plastic bag over mask...get spun around in 80 feet of very very cold water...have your air valve turned off. Object---get your air on and find your way to the surface with the bag over your mask.

-Emergency swimming ascent from 90 feet with air valve shut off.

-Buddy breathing with 4 divers off one regulator.

A few other things I can't remember right now.

After diving in farm ponds and then in the Caribbean for a few years I moved to a point in my working and personal life that there was no time to do diving anymore. The point of all this is that I was out of diving for over 20 years. Not a single dive and only a few snorkling trips during that time. To get back into diving I decided to go with an OW class while they were doing their last pool dive and last OW dive to get up to speed on the latest and greatest gear and techniques.

It was a real eye opener. Half the OW class could not decend or stay down despite being very overweighted. The instructor spent more time dragging folks around than anything else and it was a real circus. This was their last dive before getting their OW card. I can't imagine these folks in the ocean with real waves and on instructor around to control their bouyancy and keep them focused.

I have really evaluated the PADI courses today and it is very different than nearly 30 years ago. Essentially, I was trained, in todays standards, as an OW, AOW, Rescue Diver with Deep Diving, Navigation Diving, and who knows what other certifications. I only possess an OW cert.

I don't agree with the current division of basic diver knowledge and believe that more basic stuff should really be in the OW class. I don't see a need for the current AOW with the "Adventure Dives". How about a real AOW course that provides a true knowledge base in the skills needed to dive in most places in the world. IMHO, I would taylor this course to include:

-Bouyancy Control including with doubles and drysuit diving.
-Deep Diving skills including Nitrox
-Navigation skills
-Basic CPR, Primary Responder (First Aid) and O2 use.
-Altitude diving, boat diving, shore entry, and night diving.
And...a detailed study of corals and other sea life so folks really understand why you keep your hands, feet and equipment off of any sea life or living structure.

And basic buddymanship. I have had a number of buddies that I would really hate to have to depend on in a crunch. I'm sure there are many other ideas but these are my few off the top of my grey-haired head.

And, I am working on my AOW now and will most likely go on for my Rescue cert, and drysuit cert. I may get my Nitrox cert too but there are not many Nitrox options around here so it may wait for a while.

Sorry to drag on so long...just my old age kicking in I guess.