How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?

[Bronson]

Good question. I am now doing the PADI OWSI and have gained a great appreciation for the training that OW instructors undergo. I am doing this to learn about my diving hobby and gives me a reason to get out of the office rather than spending 18 hour days all the time. I have read every manual and watched every video produced by PADI. It is good stuff. The OW training that i see OW Instructors conducting is high quality in Singapore. So, I think it is excellent. I do appreciate that folks need to pay attention to the training and dive within their limits. Also, like everything, the quality comes down to the instructor to ensure the people that thay certify are able to be safe.

 

[scubamom3483]

I think its important for fellow divers to educate eachother, to take notice of each other on the boats or in groups, just as we would not let a friend or family member drive drunk. Share your experience with those that don't have much. I can't tell you how many times I have seen a diver putting their reg on upside down, not sure how to read a gauge and even looking stressed before jumping in. I make it a point to speak up and ask if they need help. Many its a first dive of the year and they can't remember all they learned. They are nervous and really a refresher course should be suggested. I feel some operators need to ask more questions and new divers or vacation divers need to be made to understand the importance of asking for help. I watched a young Spanish couple last year in Honduras. The wife was on her first open water dive after her course and they were with a group of us on the Agulara wreck dive in Roatan a 100+ foot dive. The dive shop did not know it was her first dive, husband signed her up. She had a bikini on and the husband loaded her with wait and put her in first. She went down like lead. If my buddy Ron Rogest who happened to be down below ahead of me had not caught her on the way straight down, I don't even want to think what would have happened. She looked like a dear in headlights, She was cold unprepared and her husband aborted the dive and didn't even let her know. Ron happily held her hand and helped her out, got her back to the boat safe and sound. Hubbie did not even think anything of it. She should not have been on the boat or that dive. As it was an advanced dive and C-card should have been checked. The briefing was in English and she only spoke Spanish but no body bothered to ask. She sat shaking and crying and her husband actually tried to get her in again on the second dive. I debated whether to shut my mouth, part of me thought it was not my business, they were adults and I was not staff. However I decided to go over anyway and ask her if she was ok, as he was trying to get her ready to go again. She shook her head no. So I told her to stay. Husband was a new diver too, and he spoke some English but translated non of the briefing to her on the first dive. She looked scared, she had all signs of an accident waiting to happen. The boat was full and I regret not doing something to stop her from jumping in on the first dive. Im glad Ron was there to grab her, he did save her life as far as I am concerned. I did go a step further to advise the resort owner, he needed to make sure his staff was checking c cards and not allowing OW divers to do an AOW dives. Also that it was important they make sure people doing those dives had proper gear and understood the briefing. Since then Ive made a point at taking notice, I work mostly with kids, so I tell them to speak up and don't be afraid to sit out a dive if their just not comfortable or ready. I think its all our jobs to look after each other. Yes there is a time to mind our own business, but I think common sense can help us walk that line.

 

[perdidochas]

For me, raising the swim standards (what NOAA calls "watermanship" skills, which includes being comfortable and confident while doing them) and boosting the free-diving part of training (virtually non-existent in my OW course) would be the simplest and easiest step to separate the Independent/Autonomous divers from the Resort/Supervised divers.

While I know competent, confident divers who are relatively poor swimmers, as a general rule I believe if you aren't a competent/confident swimmer in decent condition you have no business in the water anywhere it's rough, cold, there's strong current and/or the vis is limited. If you start out stressed by fear of your environment and your ability to cope with it, you're already behind the curve for dealing with any issues that may come up. You may survive, just, but you endanger not just yourself (which you have every right to do) but everyone who dives with you on every dive, because they're the ones who will have to attempt to rescue you. And a small but steady number don't survive, as the regular death toll at my local Darwinian dive site (North Monastery Beach south of Carmel, Ca.) demonstrates.

Increasing the swim distance is good for making sure that people are in decent shape, but is unnecessary to see if they're confident in the water; If you watch Michael Phelps (or any decent swimmer) take two strokes, are you really in any doubt about their watermanship?

Agreed. Back in the late 1980s when I was an assistant instructor, we generally could figure out our problem students in the first lap.

So for me, the critical issue to separate the autonomous students from the rest would be to specify the strokes to be used; no more dog-paddling, just free, breast and/or side stroke (hey, if you can do fly, by all means) performed to a decent standard: You don't have to be a competitive swimmer, just obviously know what you're doing. And no use of fins, as I believe PADI allows as an option; just you and the water (swimsuits optional)

Boost the swim distance and breath-hold (not done at all in my OW class) a bit to ensure reasonable condition, and/or impose a reasonable time limit on the first; except for students who are already marginal on the first two, I doubt much is proved by extending the length of the float/tread beyond 10 or 15 minutes. If they can go that long they can almost certainly go for 30, just with double or triple the boredom.

Then, include/require free-diving skills to a much greater extent than has been my experience (and which seems to usually be the case). I'm in no doubt that if I hadn't already had the skills, a course like the YMCA/SEI curriculum would be my choice for giving divers some fundamental underwater experience, much of which transfers well to scuba: mask and snorkel clears and controlling buoyancy by lung volume are a few, not to mention mouth breathing through a mouthpiece. Personally, I'm really glad I learned to use a snorkel without a purge valve way back when; makes clearing a reg underwater without using the purge a non-event.

I agree with the free-diving skills as well. I don't on the snorkel, I think a purge snorkel is the best thing for snorkeling since fins......

In short, I think you should be a fairly efficient air-breathing water mammal before you try to be a fish. I don't believe that the best introduction to swimming underwater is to do so on scuba.

Agreed. As a teen, I snorkeled an awful lot before ever signing up for a scuba class. Snorkeling in a lake, I learned all about fin techniques for not stirring up the bottom, etc.

And while we're talking about pie in the sky utopias, if we're going to keep it around let's make Master Diver have some real value instead of just "I took AOW and Rescue and have 50+ dives" - we've got quite enough meaningless cards these days.

Guy

 

[CaboJim]

When I first got certified in the 70's, the OW classes were alot different than they are today.
For example, we had to don a blackout mask & remove all of our gear at the bottom of the pool, We also had to swim 30 minutes continously without touching the side of the pool. Since there was no computers then, the deco tables had to be learned.
I don't see anything like that today.
A diver had to be in good shape before he could pass certification.
Yes, I know that the equipment has come along way, but still, then diving was a sport.
Today I see alot of overweight people calling themselves divers.
If the old rules were still in play, I doubt we would have as many divers as we have today.

 

[CaboJim]

A tadd off topic maybe but we all know that if you are on a charter without a buddy (wife doesn't dive, etc.) you usually have no choice who to buddy with--usually the other "single" diver, etc. You don't know him/her. You MAY notice equipment problems so you don't want to buddy with him. What do you do, ask for your $100 or more back?

Buddy up with the dive guide...

 

[boulderjohn]

If the old rules were still in play, I doubt we would have as many divers as we have today.

And that's why the old rules changed.

I remember reading a history of scuba instruction a number of years ago--I think it was in Dive Training, but I could be wrong. There was apparently a realization then that the instructional methods commonly used were unnecessarily harsh and demanding. Instructors routinely bragged about the percentage of people failing their classes. People who could safely enjoy diving were being driven away from the sport needlessly.

That was a problem, because the industry must have a critical mass of practicing divers to exist.

Right now I can plan a vacation to just about any area in the world where there is good diving and count on an operator who can provide air, transportation, and (when needed) guidance. My only problem is deciding which of the competing operators is best for me. That is only true because there are enough divers going to these places to keep them in business. If we were to cut the number of divers unnecessarily, then resort operators and equipment retailers would go out of business and I would be unable to dive in those locations.

The resulting theory was that instruction could be designed to maximize the number of divers who could safely begin basic diving. If they wanted to progress to the skills needed for more complex diving, they could choose to do so.

There are obviously those who feel that the resulting instruction went to far in that direction, but, of so, that would be a failure in execution rather than design.

 

[boulderjohn]

A tadd off topic maybe but we all know that if you are on a charter without a buddy (wife doesn't dive, etc.) you usually have no choice who to buddy with--usually the other "single" diver, etc. You don't know him/her. You MAY notice equipment problems so you don't want to buddy with him. What do you do, ask for your $100 or more back?

Buddy up with the dive guide...

I am a long time veteran of this situation.

My practices now are different from my practices when I was less experienced. When I was less experienced, I would be very quiet about my situation and try to size people up. I then initiated the request to buddy. I would sometimes approach a buddy team and ask to join them.

While I still do that a lot, I also make sure that if there is any issue with the DM wanting to enforce some kind of buddy procedure, the DM will know my experience and certification level. One of 2 things then happens.

1. I am grouped with the most experienced and skilled individual or group on the boat (Contrary to the oft-expressed fears of being asked to coach a beginner)
2. I am allowed to just hang near the group and enjoy myself.

 

[Guy Alcala]

I agree with the free-diving skills as well. I don't on the snorkel, I think a purge snorkel is the best thing for snorkeling since fins......

Oh, I wasn't saying that I choose a non-purge snorkel to use now (on the rare occasions when I use one at all), just that for that one purpose it was very useful to learn with one. With a non-purge snorkel you're used to having water in the mouthpiece, without even thinking holding slight pressure if necessary to keep it out of your mouth, and giving a small blast to clear it (if you're not using the displacement method). All of which is directly transferrable to clearing a 2nd stage without using the purge, not to mention it makes having water in the mouthpiece a non-event. I mean, taking a gentle breath past a little water in the barrel was routine if your first blast didn't quite clear it.

Guy

 

[Web Monkey]

Right now I can plan a vacation to just about any area in the world where there is good diving and count on an operator who can provide air, transportation, and (when needed) guidance. My only problem is deciding which of the competing operators is best for me. That is only true because there are enough divers going to these places to keep them in business. If we were to cut the number of divers unnecessarily, then resort operators and equipment retailers would go out of business and I would be unable to dive in those locations.

I could be perfectly happy diving locally for the rest of my life. All it would take is a compressor in my garage and a car in my driveway.

If the entire SCUBA certification industry collapsed, I wouldn't shed a single tear.

Terry

 

[Jim Lapenta]

A tadd off topic maybe but we all know that if you are on a charter without a buddy (wife doesn't dive, etc.) you usually have no choice who to buddy with--usually the other "single" diver, etc. You don't know him/her. You MAY notice equipment problems so you don't want to buddy with him. What do you do, ask for your $100 or more back?

Buddy up with the dive guide...

tell them if they want me to buddy up with the new guy they are comping me the trip and if he sucks down an 80 in 30 minutes I'll bring him up but I'm finishing my dive. Oh and he'll sign a waiver releasing me of any liability. Or they'll let me do my thing and not cause a scene.