Diver Dennis
Contributor
No worries Kim. I'm in the Walter group.
I feel a bit guilty....would you?
- Thread starter Kim
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I think diving, like everything else, throws new questions at you. You field them the best you can, and then, after the fact, you can examine what you did and decide if that's the strategy you want to use again, or if, in the sober light of day, there might have been a better choice.
Sounds like you have the nagging feeling that this just wasn't what you should have done.
You can roll it around in your head forever . . . 70 feet (what was the viz? Could you see him on his way up?), equipment malfunction (nobody knew what was wrong, right?), experienced divers, right under the boat . . . lots of variables. It is clear that, whatever the risks were of doing the solo ascent, your buddy was willing to take them, so the question becomes whether you are comfortable letting him do that.
I think for me, personally, somebody going up because of an equipment malfunction involving their air supply is somebody I'd go up with. As has been said before on this board, the only real emergency is a lack of breathing gas, and that's the place where having a buddy could be critical -- although an instructor certainly ought to be able to do a CESA from 60 feet, do you want him to have to? So I'd go with him, but it's already been pointed out on this board that I am risk-averse and conservative by temperament.
It's always annoying when somebody is telling you to do what you WANT to do, instead of what you think you SHOULD do . . . it makes it so easy not to meet your expectations of yourself
Sounds like you have the nagging feeling that this just wasn't what you should have done.
You can roll it around in your head forever . . . 70 feet (what was the viz? Could you see him on his way up?), equipment malfunction (nobody knew what was wrong, right?), experienced divers, right under the boat . . . lots of variables. It is clear that, whatever the risks were of doing the solo ascent, your buddy was willing to take them, so the question becomes whether you are comfortable letting him do that.
I think for me, personally, somebody going up because of an equipment malfunction involving their air supply is somebody I'd go up with. As has been said before on this board, the only real emergency is a lack of breathing gas, and that's the place where having a buddy could be critical -- although an instructor certainly ought to be able to do a CESA from 60 feet, do you want him to have to? So I'd go with him, but it's already been pointed out on this board that I am risk-averse and conservative by temperament.
It's always annoying when somebody is telling you to do what you WANT to do, instead of what you think you SHOULD do . . . it makes it so easy not to meet your expectations of yourself
Kim:I'll remember this one too! My Mum used to call these "white lies"!
There's no need for a lie. If you want to abort, you can. You don't need a reason. I don't think you needed to in this situation, but you certainly had every right if you so desired.
OP
Oh...I agree with you Walter. For myself I don't need the lie. Living in Asia for the time I have though has taught me something about 'face'. Now, in this situation my buddy was actually a European, but in the end everyone appreciates 'face' to a different degree. Sometimes people refuse help for the wrong reasons and put themself in needless risk. If a small lie eases the passage of something that really should be done (in MY mind), by allowing someone else to accept it - well...it's one more tool at my disposal right? I very much doubt if the guides in the Similans doing hundreds of dives a year often have a customer who turns round and tries to do what I offered, and to my mind should of done. After all, as someone mentioned earlier, DMs/Instructors are invincible right? Yeah....rrrrright.....Walter:
piikki
Contributor
Kim:
I think this is actually the key point. I made up my mind about my policy when I read about a recent incident with 3 Canadian divers. Early on in the dive one of them experienced a wrist seal leak. Two buddies accompanied the soon-to-be-victim towards the safety stop, and then the two of them continued the dive. Unfortunately, what they found upon surfacing was the innocent seal-leak diver still laying on the shore, unable to get up, only by luck having fallen on his back (due to heavy doubles?), and not on his face into water - because he experienced a medical emergency during the last 15ft. Healthy young guy and the equipment malfunction had nothing to do with what followed.
Maybe these are one in a million but I sure do not wish to be the one coming up to this scene or worse. Makes you think about making sure you get people out of water and gear when you went in with them.
H2Andy
Contributor
Kim:
he was an experienced diver. other than the primary reg, there were no
other problems. you were under the boat. his mind was fine and
he was in control of his diving.
i would have offered to go up with him like you did. if he declined,
then i would have watched him ascend and get into the boat, and then
continued the dive
Charlie99
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A big advantage of diving in good viz is that you don't have to ascend all the way to the surface to be able to safely pass him off to the boat crew.
My solution in similar situations has been to watch him ascend and continue to watch his progress on the surface until he either touches the ladder, or if it is a drift dive, until the boat comes over to pick him up.
On some dives in SE Florida where viz was OK, but not great, I had to ascend to ascend from 70' up to 35 or 40' to monitor my buddy's progress, but that still is much better than ascending all the way to the surface.
Instructors/DMs sometimes seem to act as if safety rules don't apply to them. In particular, many times DMs have inquired as to how much air I have, and then are shocked when I query them. Often, after repeating the "point at SPG, then point at him" signal a couple times, and the question finally sinks in, it turns out that they have less air than me, and their air is the controlling one.
It sounds like your incident is another case of a DM being surprised by someone treating them like a buddy.
My solution in similar situations has been to watch him ascend and continue to watch his progress on the surface until he either touches the ladder, or if it is a drift dive, until the boat comes over to pick him up.
On some dives in SE Florida where viz was OK, but not great, I had to ascend to ascend from 70' up to 35 or 40' to monitor my buddy's progress, but that still is much better than ascending all the way to the surface.
Instructors/DMs sometimes seem to act as if safety rules don't apply to them. In particular, many times DMs have inquired as to how much air I have, and then are shocked when I query them. Often, after repeating the "point at SPG, then point at him" signal a couple times, and the question finally sinks in, it turns out that they have less air than me, and their air is the controlling one.
It sounds like your incident is another case of a DM being surprised by someone treating them like a buddy.
I admire your buddy skills. You did the right thing by offering, but in the end it was his decision. Unless it put you in danger, which I am guessing in this situation it didn't, then there shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Did the rest of the dive go well?
Did the rest of the dive go well?
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Well, here's the thing ... I can well imagine that for the rest of the dive, Kim was spending at least a part of mental focus on his now-departed dive buddy, instead of just relaxing and enjoying the dive (at least, under those circumstances, that's what I would have been doing) ...renpirate:
Hence, the question posed in the OP ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
...well, I'm not too happy with "Raoul". Kim, you were the "customer" & Raoul was the "service provider" - he had a duty to abide your wishes. How could he be certain ( without the use of slates ) that he knew precisely why you didn't want him to ascend alone? Telepathy? I understand his confidence in himself & his own wish to not ruin your diving opportunity, but he put his own wishes ahead of yours, which I disagree with. He should have known it was enough that you - the customer, wanted otherwise, & respected that wish.
Regards,
D.S.D.
Regards,
D.S.D.
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