Instructor or Agency or You ?

[TJisthe1]

The Instructors can only teach and demonstrate the skills to you, it is up to you and only you to practice and perfect all of your skills. It is the instructors responsibility to teach you the limits of diving, but it is your responsibility to adhere to them. When it comes down to it, it is ultimately the diver who is responsible for his/her decisions and actions.

 

[Walter]

"It is my personal belief that the existing set of minimum standards are sufficient to achieve that balance."

I agree, depending on which set. There are several. Some are excellent, others are not.

"There has to be some minimum standard that the market will tolerate as an entry level that is both sufficient to keep divers reasonably safe while at the same time not setitng the standard so high that it is functionally unattainable for the majority."

Functionally unattainable for the majority? Your opinion of the majority is obviously much lower than mine. I don't seem to have a problem getting people to achieve that higher standard.

"No matter how you slice it, the instructor is the single consistent interface between the student and the c-card and therefore the key point of responsibility and failure or success."

True, even with low standards, an excellent instructor can teach an excellent class. Now if we could just convince them to do so...........

 

[learn-scuba]

Walter once bubbled...
<snip>
"There has to be some minimum standard that the market will tolerate as an entry level that is both sufficient to keep divers reasonably safe while at the same time not setitng the standard so high that it is functionally unattainable for the majority."

Functionally unattainable for the majority? Your opinion of the majority is obviously much lower than mine. I don't seem to have a problem getting people to achieve that higher standard.

Well... that actually depends more on the definition of "functionally unattainable" than "majority" -- It's not that the skills are too difficult to teach or learn so much as it is an unwillingness on the part of the customer to invest the time and/or money in the course which is the factor that puts it out of reach and drives shops to offer those God-aweful weekend courses. The potential student has to be educated on why they need to know these things and that's something far too many shops and agencies fail at. In the end, it is market driven even if that may be in part due to our own failings.

"No matter how you slice it, the instructor is the single consistent interface between the student and the c-card and therefore the key point of responsibility and failure or success."

True, even with low standards, an excellent instructor can teach an excellent class. Now if we could just convince them to do so...........

Amen!

 

[PhotoTJ]

What I'm finding absolutely astounding here, is that with all the agency bashing that goes on, at time of posting, not ONE person has said it's an agency's responsibility.

 

[Don Burke]

My life, my responsibility.

If the agency is a problem, the instructor shouldn't work with them or deviate from the curriculum. I've had a couple tell me they thought something the book was a bad idea.

If the instructor is a problem, that's my fault for not firing him. That brings it back to me.

All I really insist on from an instructor is that he not kill me or rip me off. If I'm not getting taught, _I_ need to fix it by getting the instructor to answer my questions or by firing him and going to another instructor who will. The references are out there.

40 years ago it was different. Now I've got the Navy Dive Manual, the NOAA Dive Manual, a couple of editions of The New Science of Skin and SCUBA Diving, and Doing it Right.

I've got no one to blame but myself if I don't get trained.

 

[Walter]

"not ONE person has said it's an agency's responsibility."

You obviously haven't been reading the posts.

 

[PhotoTJ]

I think the poll speaks for itself, 0% says it all.

 

[Walter]

Polls are silly and useless. I generally state my case instead of responding to the poll. I have not voted in the poll, but I have said agencies are responsible for the quality of training.

 

[seanrollins]

Stupid poll - depends on the circumstance. Obviously the instructor is responsible to teach you the curriculum, but you're responsible to follow standards and what that instructor taught you.

As instructors, we can only do so much. Dive smart!

 

[ZoCrowes255]

I think most of the responsibility lies with the instructor AT FIRST! Their are some instructors who cut corners, don't teach proper bouyancy etc.

However a good instructor is not a dive god. Once you're out of his/her class it will be up to you to maintain your skills. I know a few divers who had piss poor instruction from another dive shop came to us to further their diving skills. We hooked them up with one of our instructors and she has been going diving with them almost every weekend to help them improve their skills and comfort level in the water. That's an example of poor instruction from their original instructor.

In our classes we do not make students clip off their gauges or backups. We used to give them clips to take with them for pool and openwater and then we would get them back. The problem was if we sent 9 clips out we would only get three back. That was not very economical for us so we no longer supplied them. Now at the start of the class every instructor STRONGLY recomends buying clips. For $6 you can buy a scumball and gauge clip or even go to the hardware store and buy bolt clips for even less. Even after HAMMERING it into people they still dive with danglies because they don't care. That is diver responisibilty.

You can teach good buoyancy and trim all day long but if the students don't listen or care then it's all for naught.