Integrated Power Inflators Are A Terrible Idea!

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I replaced the hose on my primary a couple of weeks ago. I went with a 40" Milflex. I actually could have gone with the standard 36" and I would have probably been happy with it. I am a big guy, so hose length would be more of an issue for me than most. It wasn't. Those that are saying the short hose is causing a problem are most likely thinking it's a problem to make their point rather than anything it actually being a crippling difficulty.

It's like giving OJ the glove to try on. Of course it isn't going to fit! I
 
I replaced the hose on my primary a couple of weeks ago. I went with a 40" Milflex. I actually could have gone with the standard 36" and I would have probably been happy with it. I am a big guy, so hose length would be more of an issue for me than most. It wasn't. Those that are saying the short hose is causing a problem are most likely thinking it's a problem to make their point rather than anything it actually being a crippling difficulty.

It's like giving OJ the glove to try on. Of course it isn't going to fit! I

Right now the regulator set I have as my Number 1 (Mark 2 Evo, dual G250s) has a 60 inches primary and a 22 inches secondary, long hose donate, Hog rig. I have packed a 40 inches primary hose but I may leave the 60 inches hose installed and just remove and plug the secondary. Nothing about a BCI keeps me from using a 40 or a 60 or even a 72 inches hose on my primary. And nothing keeps me from doing drills with my buddy (wife) or breathing the BCI at safety stops to exercise it and practice with it just as I do now with my Hog rigged kit. As far as what my instructor might have thought oof it, he superseded even BCs, never new what Hogarthian or DIR might be or mean and has been deceased longer than the average age of most scubaboarders. Kinda gonna be hard for me to ask his opinion.
 
Well, I've read all six pages of this thread and don't remember seeing anyone doing sport diving (not tech, or cave, etc) who has dived an AIR2 or similar for any period of time, had sufficient bad experiences that they went to a "conventional" onto and separate Inflator. One person was talking about going to an octo necklace, but didn't say why.

I only have about 200 or so dives on my AIR2, all without problem, and one involving a lost 2nd stage which led to an immediate switch to my AIR2 and continuing the dive. After a four year layoff, I only went "back" to a conventional octo on my last trip on the insistence of my rather opinionated refresher dive instructor and some problems getting my AIR2 serviced. Now as I'm assembling my gear for a planned dive trip in the Spring, the freshly serviced AIR2 is going back onto my rig and the octo is coming off!

I read a lot of naysayers who say they have all these reasons that Integrated Air Inflators are bad and will kill you, but I have yet to see a report of a dive accident blamed on use of one and no sport diver who has really gotten used to one then abandoned it. BTW, the one piece of my rig (other than my primary secondary) that I am most likely to be in touch with is my inflator for buoyancy control. It's pretty easy to find when I need air too!

That's what works for me. You do you!
Froggie 🐸
 
While an Air2 may be viewed by many to be more trouble than it’s worth, back in the early 80s, many divers were using Air2s. Yes, some deco folks used them and some folks diving in caves used them. While they have grown out of fashion by contemporary standards, some still use them for recreational diving and have never had an issue with them. Most folks gravitate to the gear that a specific class requires or what an instructor may be using/recommended to their students at the time.

Those that entered into diving over the last 25-30 years were not exposed to their common use so they don’t generally use them compared to those that started diving in the late 70s and throughout the 80s. With that said, they are still being produced and sold so if they were as bad as some have argued, they would no longer be making them as there would be no market for them. I’m not one of those “I don’t like it so you shouldn’t use it” types so use whatever you want.

I am one of the rare ones that only use Y valves on my single cylinder dives and have been doing so for about 25 years now. I usually get two questions at a dive. What is that and where can I get one. Unfortunately, the US market never fully embraced the concept (mostly the increased expense) so they stopped importing them but they still sell the euro version outside of the US and I have a few of those for spare parts.
 
I have read this entire thread, and think it's quite interesting to see different philosophies on the use of the octopus/secondary regulator/integrated power inflators. But nobody has shown Scubapro's philosphy on why they developed the A.I.R. II integrated power inflator. The below two pages come from Scubapro's 1986 Equipment Selection Guide, and explains Scubapro's philosophy on the A.I.R. II. It also gives specs for the A.I.R. II breathing characteristics (which have become better).

Now, I have never gone this route, but confess that at times my octopus does drag the river bottom (I now have neck straps--we used to call them neck straps, not necklesses, and use them).

Now, a couple of thoughts; I have used my octopus on only about two occasions, one being a complete failure of my Trieste II double hose regular due to a displaced baffle plate in the mouthpiece which covered the intake non-return valve. This is something I added when the regulator was modified to provide a more powerful Venturi. The other was when I went into the river with a Dacor Pacer regulator (plastic second stage) that had primary diaphragm that was misalligned and leaked. My first inhalation was all water, so I simple changed over to my octopus and completed the dive on it. That's it in 64 years of diving.

Concering failure points, let me as a "vintage diver" point out that the very old, Mistral double hose regulator had only 6 moving parts. It was a very, very reliable regulator. Here's an article about the Mistral from Skin Diver Magazine, and also the breathing characteristics from the U.S. Navy Experimental Diving Unit. Perhaps that is why we simply trained on buddy breathing, and left it at that. Here's the Cousteau film "Search for the Titanic's Sister Ship, Britanic," during which they used only the Mistral regulator for their deep dives. They also used a submersible decompression chamber so as to not do in-water decompression. But they used the Mistral regulator without any SPG or octopus during these dives, without problems. They did modify the Mistral regulators to include rotating the box so that the inhalation hose was over the left shoulder, due to the valve placement on the extreme left, and extending the length of the exhaust hose. They also had to reverse the mouthpiece non-return valves to reflect the new orientation of the breathing tubes.

Today's technical diver is so gear laden that sometimes they need a diver propulsion vehicle to even move, as swim fins (especially using the frog kick) don't provide enough force to move all that equipment through the water. But this is a Basic Scuba forum, and is meant for sport diving, not technical diving.

Getting back to the integrated power inflators, these are great in concept. Realize that when they were developed, very few divers were even using octopus regulators. We did not use octopus regulators on our clambed survey work in 1975, for instance. So having the A.I.R. II available was actually a breakthrough at that time, and is a good option today.

SeaRat
 

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How do the specs of breathing on the AIR2 compare to modern second stages? In the ballpark? Markedly inferior?
 
I doubt most regulators have much more than 6 moving parts. I know my Sherwood's have 5 (if I'm counting right.)
 
How do the specs of breathing on the AIR2 compare to modern second stages? In the ballpark? Markedly inferior?
I’d say in the ballpark. Depending on what you are using. I’ve noticed a difference when switching from an Atomic B2 to Atomic SS1, but this was with gear that is probably best categorized as well used. A bit less of a difference when switching from my Zeagle Z to Octo Z. In either case, I wouldn’t classify either the SS1 or Octo Z as “breathing through a straw.” A bit more effort than than my primary, but never felt even close to starved for air.

If I’m breathing from it, it’s either short term, or I’m heading for the surface, so as long as I’m getting enough air, it’s doing it’s job.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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