Is it a bad idea to dive with NO ditchable weights?

[inetmug]

What exactly is a rubber belt with wire buckle?

 

[Thalassamania]

What exactly is a rubber belt with wire buckle?

See: Thread

Open this PDF and look at item WB 45.

 

[johnny_bravo]

Here's one:

65" Rubber Weight Belt with Wire Buckle from LeisurePro.com

Cheers.

-J.-

 

[Charlie99]

tank(s) as they empty, which I think scuba_moron was implying. For example, an AL80 changes by about 4.5 lbs between 3000 and 500 psi.

A reasonably close approximation of the weight of air (whether in a steel, aluminum, or fiberglass tank) is 6 pounds for every 80 cubic feet. The change in buoyancy of a tank during the dive, is of course, simply the weight of the air that has been used.

Will 4lbs. make any difference if I coverted it to ditchable?

4 pounds of ditchable weight will work if you are weighted towards the light side. Even with a full AL80, my weighting is such that I can float on the surface without ditching weight if I fill my lungs, but will sink if I exhale strongly. Dropping a few pounds of weight (whether 4 pounds or 8 pounds) just makes it a bit more easier to stay on the surface.

The best thing for you to do is simply to go diving, and at the beginning of a dive while you have a full tank, completely empty your BCD or wing and see how comfortable you would be hanging out on the surface for 10 or 15 minutes waiting for a boat.

While not a pleasant thought, I should point out that 4-8 pounds of positive buoyancy is NOT enough to float a person whose lungs are full of water, so having a small amount of buoyancy will help keep you alive, but won't necessarily keep your corpse on the surface.

 

[Dive-aholic]

There's very little science to be done on one tropical vacation trip, we're in rather different boxes.

You said you require 12 dives in the past 12 months. If that's your only requirement (you state no others), then a 1 week trip to Belize is enough.

Who said experienced or even well trained? You're trying to reference things that are not in evidence. Please deal with the logic of dead on the bottom vs. positively buoyant at the surface,

Here's where we differ - I think it's dead on the bottom vs dead on the surface...

You keep beating about the bush ... first it's AGE, oh that's right it's not AGE, ... its panic, oh no, ... not panic, lack of skill, we can go on like that forever.

I never said it's not AGE. I said most will probably end up holding their breath. I never said it's not panic. Reread my posts...or don't... I'm not sure we'll ever agree on this issue, and that's fine. You're right, we can go on arguing this forever without ever coming to an agreement on it.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I am personally dismayed at the current trend to "get rid of the weight" on the belt or integrated weight system for open water diving. I think it may result in a trend of additional risk to typical recreational divers. In my opinion, open water diving should ALWAYS be done with some ditchable weight. I cannot fathom a recreational, open water instructor teaching anything to the contrary. There certainly will not be one working for me.

Phil Ellis

I think there's additional risk in overweighting OW students just to get ditchable weight on them. I teach my students about ditchable weight. But I've also had students I had to place a 1lb weight on a belt to be within standards, but it also put them overweight (they were overweight to begin with).

What I teach is proper weighting. If that means ditchable weight, then so be it. But if a bp/w is enough to make one of my students neutral, then I'm NOT adding weight to them. I don't overweight my students and I don't overweight myself. But we also do all of our skills (except the ones I'm required to do on the bottom ) midwater.

I guess it's a good thing I'm an independent...

 

[Dive-aholic]

Here we are again discussing one of those perennial topics. Anyway, yes I had an incident, about which I posted a couple years ago, where I was caught in a downwelling. I tried to swim out of it with no success. I tried to fully inflate my wing again with no success. I was still being carried down despite both of these. At that point I decided to dump my weights and take my chances on what certainly would have been a DCI, since I was at 150'. Fortunately, at the moment the downwelling ceased and I was able to deflate my wing and begin a controlled ascent to the surface.

Agreed that most of the time the purpose of shedding weights is to stay on the surface once the diver has swam there. TS&M and I had a discussion about that one time that resulted in us agreeing that the decision about disposable weights had more to do with money than anything else. I wasn't willing to throw away the cost of my rig to stay on the surface; she was. I've since changed my mind and often dive with no readily ditchable weight.

In any case, I believe the circumstances where dumping weight at depth is even more rare than the incidence of DCI. If, like in my case, a person is in that circumstance dumping weight is likely to result in some kind of a DCI that may be fatal in its' own right.

So you never ditched the weights. My guess is if you had, it wouldn't have helped. You would still have been caught in the downwelling. That's how powerful they are.

 

[Thalassamania]

You said you require 12 dives in the past 12 months. If that's your only requirement (you state no others), then a 1 week trip to Belize is enough.

If you want to read the minimum standards and practices, go to the AAUS website

Here's where we differ - I think it's dead on the bottom vs dead on the surface...

Like the difference between "cold and dead" and "warm and dead?" There is a real difference.

I never said it's not AGE. I said most will probably end up holding their breath. I never said it's not panic. Reread my posts...or don't... I'm not sure we'll ever agree on this issue, and that's fine. You're right, we can go on arguing this forever without ever coming to an agreement on it.

I said it's not AGE, there is no data to support you unfounded supposition. What you said was:

The problem is that most divers who get to the point of ditching weight at depth are going to be in a panicked state of mind. Flaring and breathing are not going to be at the forefront of thought.

That's because their training is, almost by definition, inadequate.

Then you went on:

Well, breathing may be, but I'd guess that the panic would result in a breath hold during the ascent. It's just human nature. I guess I should have explained myself better with that statement.

It is the nature of half trained, unskilled individuals to panic when faced with situations that they have not drilled for. It is the nature of well trained, fully skilled individuals to perform in the fashion that they have been trained when faced with situations that they'd trained for. That's virtually a tautology. I submit, for careful consideration, that you are predicting behavior for individuals that fall into the former, rather than the later case. Why you are doing that I do not know.

This is not a matter of my opinion vs. your opinion, this is almost a logical syllogism that leads to a logical conclusion. Am I missing something?

 

[ArcticDiver]

Lots of assertions based on suppostions that may, or may not, be factual.

Would my dropping weights in the situation I posted on have made a difference? We'll never know because I didn't have to. To assert, as another poster did, that it would have made no difference is assinine. That person wasn't there and I didn't complete the action. So, none of us know. We can guess. But we don't Know.

Lets face it. In fact our entire kit is ditchable. All that is required is to undo some straps and maybe a couple buckles and the entire thing is gone.

The Real Question is: Is the diver better off ditching weight or carrying through? My experience and analysis of what I've read and discussed with others, many of whom are much more knowledgable than I, is that it is extremely rare for ditching weight to be the preferable option when at depth. On the other hand, while not common, ditching weight while on the surface is an option to always keep in mind. Whether that weight is the whole kit, or added dive weights, or something like a dive light is really up to the individual diver.

So, most of the time I think that being sure you won't accidentally lose weight is much more important than having it easily ditched. Then being able to gain buoyancy at the surface by ditching added weights or the entire kit is something that ought to be thought through and practiced.

 

[Thalassamania]

... So, most of the time I think that being sure you won't accidentally lose weight is much more important than having it easily ditched. Then being able to gain buoyancy at the surface by ditching added weights or the entire kit is something that ought to be thought through and practiced.

I do not grasp why people seem to see not loosing your weights and being able to ditch them as mutually exclusive.