Is it a bad idea to dive with NO ditchable weights?

[Papa_Bear]

The problem to me is even when they're removable it is the last thing anyone does! A recent rescue on another thread recounted a situation of a panicked diver, yet no one ditched his wights! The surface is the best place to ditch them and it should be done first not last! With the cost of lead going up it will probably get done less! You can't drown on the surface with a wet suit a BCD and no wight belt without trying real hard! I feel you can have trim wight that is not readily detachable, but you should have enough to make you positive when dropped!

 

[Thalassamania]

Exactly my feeling. If ditchable weight were NEVER at risk of being accidentally ditched, fine, it's got to be theoretically safer to dive with it. But I would be willing to guess that more accidents have been caused by accidental weight loss at depth than by inability to surface due to excessive weight at depth.

At the surface, clearly ditchable weight is safer. But how much safer depends on lots on factors. The primary reason PADI is so strongly behind ditchable weights is because they feel that the surface is at least a dangerous place as depth.

Personally, I dive with no ditchable weight almost all the time, but that's warm water and a lightweight rig; no problem swimming to the surface and remaining surfaced with no air in the wing.

Hmmmm ... 14,000 plus dives. Zero accidental ditches. Odds of accidentally dropping my weights = 0.0000. Why? Wire buckles on rubber belts.

The problem to me is even when they're removable it is the last thing anyone does! A recent rescue on another thread recounted a situation of a panicked diver, yet no one ditched his wights! The surface is the best place to ditch them and it should be done first not last! With the cost of lead going up it will probably get done less! You can't drown on the surface with a wet suit a BCD and no wight belt without trying real hard! I feel you can have trim wight that is not readily detachable, but you should have enough to make you positive when dropped!

Well ... that just speaks to the current level of diver training and leadership preparedness.

 

[halocline]

Hmmmm ... 14,000 plus dives. Zero accidental ditches. Odds of accidentally dropping my weights = 0.0000. Why? Wire buckles on rubber belts.

That's great for you, but it's not everybody. Lots of people accidentally drop weight, especially with integrated weight BCs that are not either designed well, or not familiar to the user. (rental, for example)

 

[RonFrank]

Our divers make 12 dives in the previous 12 months or loose their diving status.

Define "Our Divers"? And how can they loose "their diving status"?

But anyone serious about diving will do twelve dives a year.. easily. If I can do it here, folks can do it anywhere! :blinking:

 

[RonFrank]

Exactly my feeling. If ditchable weight were NEVER at risk of being accidentally ditched, fine, it's got to be theoretically safer to dive with it. But I would be willing to guess that more accidents have been caused by accidental weight loss at depth than by inability to surface due to excessive weight at depth.

Most divers dive weight integrated BC's. This does not make for NEVER at risk, but if the BC, and diver are both functional, than ditch weight is NOT at risk of getting released by accident.

Those of us who dive the occasional BP/W and weight belt need to be a bit more careful. However if you feel the belt go loose, then stop and take the time to fix up your STUFF!

This is another advantage to diving in a horz position! If you are vertical, and your weight belt goes pop, it maybe gone before you can do anything about it!

 

[TSandM]

Oh, I disagree about integrated weight never being at risk of being lost! Some BCs use Velcro systems, and Velcro fatigues over time. A friend had an older Oceanic BC that used a bizarre system with a pin, and he gave up on the BC after losing his weights repeatedly. My husband has a SeaQuest Balance which uses a positive lock system, and he's lost a weight pocket during a dive.

Frankly, I haven't had a weight belt come loose since I stopped using plastic buckles. I HAVE had a 5 lb soft weight come out of one of the pockets on my XS Scuba weight belt, which made for a very interesting ascent at the end of the dive (kelp comes in handy).

 

[Hawkwood]

Oh, I disagree about integrated weight never being at risk of being lost! Some BCs use Velcro systems, and Velcro fatigues over time. ....quote]

Yup, I retrieved the same weight pouch from the same diver on two seperate dives one day on our recent trip to Little Cayman. The first we were at about 45 - 50 feet. I saw it fall - the DMs went for him and I went for the pouch. The second time we saw it on the bottom at 30 feet below the boat ladder. Velcro only, no clips or buckles.

 

[24940]

I lost a weight pouch, but never a weight belt. It's virtually impossible to accidentally drop a weight belt when you are in horizontal trim. You can unbuckle completely and it will just lay across your waist.

 

[Thalassamania]

Define "Our Divers"? And how can they loose "their diving status"?

But anyone serious about diving will do twelve dives a year.. easily. If I can do it here, folks can do it anywhere! :blinking:

AAUS Standards and Procedures requirement for diving under institutional auspices.

Most divers dive weight integrated BC's.

Most divers? Please present data.

This does not make for NEVER at risk, but if the BC, and diver are both functional, than ditch weight is NOT at risk of getting released by accident.

I've seen far more BC weight pockets lost during a dive than weightbelts.

Those of us who dive the occasional BP/W and weight belt need to be a bit more careful. However if you feel the belt go loose, then stop and take the time to fix up your STUFF!

If you use a rubber belt with a wire buckle you will never have that happen and that becomes one less thing to worry about.

This is another advantage to diving in a horz position! If you are vertical, and your weight belt goes pop, it maybe gone before you can do anything about it!

If you use a rubber belt with a wire buckle then being horizontal all the time only makes you maneuver like a clumsy submersible rather than an organism that belongs in the environment.

That's great for you, but it's not everybody. Lots of people accidentally drop weight, especially with integrated weight BCs that are not either designed well, or not familiar to the user. (rental, for example)

There's an easy and inexpensive solution that you've already read.

 

[inetmug]

Well, as one pointed out ditchable is very cool to have at the surface when problems arise. There was a diver in N. Florida a few years ago that made it to the surface (I think with his kid), to only go backdown.

It is easy to see that the cave divers are in a different situation perhaps.

One other reason to have ditchable as a buddy point out this AM when we were discussing this... when a hose breaks are you are dumping air like crazy - it happened to him. Swimming your rig up and then having to hold out on the surface could definalty be an issue.

However, as long as you are willing to dump your rig then you are in a "dumpable situation" - perhaps and expensive one, but surviveable.

Perhaps the compromise is to have a portion of weight dumpable, just enough to make sense.