Is it a bad idea to dive with NO ditchable weights?

[TSandM]

I cave dive with no ditchable weight (no weight at all, actually, other than my tanks). I don't worry about it, because I cannot really imagine a circumstance where ditching weights in a cave would be helpful.

But I think, after three years of reading this board and incident reports elsewhere, that new divers ought to have some ditchable weight, not to ditch at depth, but for the SURFACE. The simple fact is that, if you are too positive to sink, it is difficult (but not impossible) to drown. Someone exhausted or panic stricken can very easily be rendered unsinkable by the removal of sufficient weight. Then the rescuer can sit off a ways in safety, and wait for the person to wind down enough to be safely helped. There are way too many stories (like this most recent one in Florida) where divers made it to the surface, only to disappear again. If they had been able to become positive, perhaps that would not have happened.

 

[diver 85]

I would take that 4 lb of weight & put it either on a belt or in some kind of ditchable pockets.......

 

[Dive-aholic]

Well ... that's not really true, you can flare and that will slow you down below 60 fpm.

You get an AGE if you hold your breath, you can surface in excess of 300 fpm (submarine escape training is done at an average of 340 fpm) without any AGE concern, as long as you keep your airway open. It is possible that a buoyant ascent following a long dive that requires mandatory decompression could result in DCS, but to my way of thinking DCS is preferable to no ascent at all.

The problem is that most divers who get to the point of ditching weight at depth are going to be in a panicked state of mind. Flaring and breathing are not going to be at the forefront of thought. Well, breathing may be, but I'd guess that the panic would result in a breath hold during the ascent. It's just human nature. I guess I should have explained myself better with that statement.

I don't know of any instance in which a perfectly weighted diver would need to ditch weight at depth. Can you provide some examples?

 

[sea nmf]

I agree with Lynne. Ditchable weights are very good to have at the surface in a paniced or even high anxiety situation. If your BC goes south and you swim up to the surface, then removing your BC would be the next best thing, if you have your head about you. By the way, how is the BC going south? Cause?

I can't figure out why someone would want to ditch their weights at depth. Can anyone give me a scenario where this would be a good idea?

 

[Thalassamania]

The problem is that most divers who get to the point of ditching weight at depth are going to be in a panicked state of mind. Flaring and breathing are not going to be at the forefront of thought. Well, breathing may be, but I'd guess that the panic would result in a breath hold during the ascent. It's just human nature. I guess I should have explained myself better with that statement.

That's a problem best solved, IMHO, with adequate training in the first place rather than just throwing up one's hands and deciding, "oh well ... they're 'gonna panic anyway." I do not agree it's "just human nature." I'd suggest that its just inadequate training.

I don't know of any instance in which a perfectly weighted diver would need to ditch weight at depth. Can you provide some examples?

One the classic examples (that I've not experienced so I can't address directly) is the onset of CNS Oxygen Toxicity. I've never been in a situation that required a belt drop so I'm open to reconsideration, but give that over 80% of divers who lost their lives were found with on the bottom with their weight belt still on, it is not reasonable to assume that they'd have had a better chance if they were positively buoyant regardless of the proximate or ultimate cause of the incident? We can't say for sure but some of those might have survived if they'd been trained to shuck their belt.

 

[nereas]

Is it a bad idea to dive without any ditchable weights?

I was diving with 14lbs. of lead attached to a Balance BC, Steel HP100, and a 7mm full suit. However, I recently switched to a BP/W setup. My plate weighs 5lbs, and I've added an Oxycheq 4lbs weight sausage to the plate. This gives me a total of 9lbs.

When I factor in all the metal hardware (D-rings, Cam Bands, Belt buckle) into the equation. I should be somewhere around 10lbs weighed, easily. Given that my Balance BC has about a +3lbs positive bouyancy, I should be able sink without any addition weight.

So! Is this dangerous for me to dive with such a setup?

Fact: if you can quickly establish neutral buoyance underwater, and/or positive buoyancy at the surface quickly as well, then this is an added safety feature that may save your life by preventing your drowning.

Conclusion: if you cannot do so, then you are unsafe.

 

[nereas]

...I can't figure out why someone would want to ditch their weights at depth. Can anyone give me a scenario where this would be a good idea?

At the beginning of any scuba dive, you will be negatively ballasted by the weight of your compressed breathing gas(ses). If you encounter a major set of problems near the beginning of your dive (before you incur a deco obligation, if diving tech-deco), then it could save your life to be able to easily resolve the negative ballast by dropping enough weight to establish neutral buoyancy.

This is one of two very good reasons to be able to ditch quickly.

The other reason is to be able to establish positive buoyancy at the surface, in the event of a similar problem-set.

A lot of relatively inexperienced divers think they themselves are super-human, and are thus exempted somehow from taking these normal precautions. The Grim Reaper seeks out such souls for his kingdom.

 

[Dive-aholic]

That's a problem best solved, IMHO, with adequate training in the first place rather than just throwing up one's hands and deciding, "oh well ... they're 'gonna panic anyway." I do not agree it's "just human nature." I'd suggest that its just inadequate training.

I have to agree that adequate training helps minimize the issue, but I'm also realistic enough to know that now all of the divers I train will be diving on a regular basis. Some have gone on to dive on a monthly or better basis. But some don't dive for several months. Those are the ones that will likely panic regardless of how adequate their training was.

One the classic examples (that I've not experienced so I can't address directly) is the onset of CNS Oxygen Toxicity. I've never been in a situation that required a belt drop so I'm open to reconsideration, but give that over 80% of divers who lost their lives were found with on the bottom with their weight belt still on, it is not reasonable to assume that they'd have had a better chance if they were positively buoyant regardless of the proximate or ultimate cause of the incident? We can't say for sure but some of those might have survived if they'd been trained to shuck their belt.

It's doubtful that those divers maintained consciousness long enough after the onset of symptoms to ditch any weight. Just read Sheck Exley's account of a dive to 400' in the Bahamas of 2 experienced divers who blacked out and continued descending. There was no time for a ditch. Besides, if you dive to conservative ppO2 levels, this shouldn't be an issue. I still maintain that proper training is the key, not ditching weights.

Does anyone have any firsthand information of a weight ditching incident in which that was the only viable option?

 

[Thalassamania]

I have to agree that adequate training helps minimize the issue, but I'm also realistic enough to know that now all of the divers I train will be diving on a regular basis. Some have gone on to dive on a monthly or better basis. But some don't dive for several months. Those are the ones that will likely panic regardless of how adequate their training was.

That's one of the many reasons that I choose not to train those sorts of divers. Our divers make 12 dives in the previous 12 months or loose their diving status.

It's doubtful that those divers maintained consciousness long enough after the onset of symptoms to ditch any weight. Just read Sheck Exley's account of a dive to 400' in the Bahamas of 2 experienced divers who blacked out and continued descending. There was no time for a ditch. Besides, if you dive to conservative ppO2 levels, this shouldn't be an issue. I still maintain that proper training is the key, not ditching weights.

Rather an extreme example don't you think? There may well have been far more going on than just ox-tox.[/quote]

Does anyone have any firsthand information of a weight ditching incident in which that was the only viable option?

There is alway more than one way to skin a cat, but the more tools in your kit the better your chances. As I said, I'm open to change on this issue but its hard to get around the logic that stuck on the bottom is dead but positively buoyant and on the surface gives a chance of survival. The logic is inescapable.

 

[Oddsnends]

First, let's limit the discussion to a standard open water recreational diver. Second, let's assume by "ditchable weight" we are referring to a weight belt (non-integrated).

I think there is a clear advantage to ditchable weight when dealing with surface emergencies, but what about at depth?

Let me suggest a two scenarios:

1) Diver at depth finds self in situation where he/she must abort the dive but fears unconsciousness will occur prior to reaching the surface.​

2) Diver at depth must momentarily remove BC​

We should balance the % chance of scenarios that favor having ditchable weight with the risk of accidentally ditching the weight.