Is the BP/W really the best BCD for recreational divers?

[Pullmyfinger]

 

[TSandM]

It felt stable in every other respect, but when it started to roll it would continue to roll me right over--to the point where I was turned turtle, and the tank became my keel--unless I corrected it immediately

I don't think this has anything to do with using a backplate system. It MAY have to do with using an STA, if the STA moves the tank further off the diver's back. It definitely has to do with using steel tanks which are very negative when they are full, and therefore, when they get off-axis, do want to continue to move to the lowest point of the system. But I had much worse problems with roll in my original BC than I did when I first started diving a plate, because the original BC would let the tank get off-axis so much more easily.

I would certainly agree that the average 11 year old is probably better off in a small plate. The average 11 year old is probably better off in an extra small BCD. Plates come in sizes because people do -- so do all other BCs. However, a medium plate will suit most people between about 5'2" (me) and 6', which is pretty darned good.

I would also agree that, if you want your rig to be absolutely perfect, you will almost certainly need to adjust it between a 3 mil wetsuit and a dry suit for very cold water. If you aren't a perfectionist, you can just tighten the crotch strap in the 3 mil suit (assuming you are diving a single tank). I think most of us who dive like madmen and switch between cold and warm water eventually have two plates. They aren't that expensive, especially if you are buying an aluminum plate for the warm water.

With regards to the kid with the first stage in the back of her head -- it's an occupational hazard of being small, whether you dive a plate or not. For me, an Al80 goes from the bend in my knees to the back of my head. There's nothing I can do about that. If I move the tank down to avoid the first stage, it will bang on the backs of my thighs. If I move it up to where it doesn't do that, the first stage digs into the back of my head. This is true in any BC -- it's a characteristic of a fairly long tank on a short diver.

I do think it takes a little time to get the adjustment of a continuous harness right. After the years of working with students, I can generally get it right in two iterations -- close the first time, and better the second. But unlike my original BC, which had to be tightened every single time I dove it (and tightened by pulling straps in a motion which was very difficult for me to do with enough force to get it really snug), once the continuous harness is right, it is just plain right, every single time you get in it.

And I like two cambands -- it means the tank can't slew sideways!

At any rate, I don't know if a backplate setup is the best BC for every single diver out there. But I think the majority of your objections are spurious. Backplate setups DO present questions of where and how to stow weight, and what to do for storage. Those problems are easily solved by the many backplate divers out there, who don't seem to find them insurmountable.

 

[Michael Guerrero]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you guys are a bunch of nerds...

Carry on.

 

[doctormike]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you guys are a bunch of nerds...

Carry on.

Thanks!

 

[drbill]

I'm not going to tell anyone else what BCD is "right" for them. For myself, I own a BP but rarely use it. I greatly prefer my soft harness, an ancient Scubapro X-Tek, with the same wings I use on the BP. The harness fits better on my back, is adjustable and I can use the quick releases IF I ever have to ditch the BCD and tank (never have, but). I find a BP far more difficult to ditch (of course I may not have mine adjusted optimally). In all the years of diving (50+ although only 25 with a BCD) I've never had quick releases fail.

 

[Nemrod]

Just like a doubles wing is too much for a single tank and tacos and adds drag and weight, so is the conventional bent metal backplate being larger and heavier than needed and does not place the single tank optimally close to the back. A big, flat chunk of metal that serves no purpose but to add weight and difficulty (for travel).

The bent plate is a doubles plate, using STAs or other means to perch a single tank on top of that central ridge is a kludge. The width and shape of most of these typical plates, while okay for doubles for which they were originally meant, is not optimal or minimal for a single tank.

I like wings, I just do not care for the typical bent metal tech plate. I prefer for most single stank diving either my Freedom Plate or my Oxy soft plate or the new little VDH universal mini-plate. Now for doubles, I like my "typical" Hammerhead bent plates. Big, square chunks of metal.

I do not find a standard Hog harness difficult to get into and out of or to doff and don. I have considered adding a buckle or snaps to the left shoulder, actually have on one harness. But I find that leaving the shoulder straps a little loose and relying on the waist strap to stabilize works very well for me and my body type. If I were shaped like a bowling ball then I can see needing the shoulder straps to be more snug. I do not need to resize between swimsuit to 5mm. My Hammerhead doubles plate is sized for my 5mm through my semi-dry and drysuit.

There are diving groups that promote minimalism but then do not practice it. If it is not needed, it should not be there, most of the square bent metal plates shape and size is not needed for singles diving and therefore does not meet the definition of minimalism. In fact, there are a number of small BCs and travel BCs that are more minimal, simple and streamlined, than these chunky square metal plates both in and out of the water.

N

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Just like a doubles wing is too much for a single tank and tacos and adds drag and weight, so is the conventional bent metal backplate being larger and heavier than needed and does not place the single tank optimally close to the back. A big, flat chunk of metal that serves no purpose but to add weight and difficulty (for travel).

The bent plate is a doubles plate, using STAs or other means to perch a single tank on top of that central ridge is a kludge. The width and shape of most of these typical plates, while okay worth doubles for which they were originally meant, is not optimal or minimal for a single tank.

I like wings, I just do not care for the typical bent metal tech plate. I prefer for most single stank diving either my Freedom Plate or my Oxy soft plate or the new little VDH universal mini-plate. Now for doubles, I like my "typical" Hammerhead bent plates. Big, square chunks of metal.

I do not find a standard Hog harness difficult to get into and out of or to doff and don. I have considered adding a buckle or snaps to the left shoulder, actually have on one harness. But I find that leaving the shoulder straps a little loose and relying on the waist strap to stabilize works very well for me and my body type. If I were shaped like a bowling ball then I can see needing the shoulder straps to be more snug. I do not need to resize between swimsuit to 5mm. My Hammerhead doubles plate is sized for my 5mm through my semi-dry and drysuit.

There are diving groups that promote minimalism but then do not practice it. If it is not needed, it should not be there, most of the square bent metal plates shape and size is not needed for singles diving and therefore does not meet the definition of minimalism. In fact, there are a number of small BCs and travel BCs that are more minimal, simple and streamlined, than these chunky square metal plates both in and out of the water.

N

Could you please repost this so I can "like" it again?



I think I came up with a few new shades of blue for the universal color chart from my face.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Just like a doubles wing is too much for a single tank and tacos and adds drag and weight, so is the conventional bent metal backplate being larger and heavier than needed and does not place the single tank optimally close to the back. A big, flat chunk of metal that serves no purpose but to add weight and difficulty (for travel).

The bent plate is a doubles plate, using STAs or other means to perch a single tank on top of that central ridge is a kludge. The width and shape of most of these typical plates, while okay for doubles for which they were originally meant, is not optimal or minimal for a single tank.
. . .
N

What about so-called STA-less single-tank plates like the ones from DSS?

I thought the idea that the plate enables one to place more weight closer to one's back was a major benefit of the BP/W over a jacket BC? I can appreciate from having tried it out that an STA can have the exact opposite effect from what's desirable--moving weight FARTHER from one's back than would be the case with a jacket BC--but is a full-sized plate really "heavier than needed"?

In my quest to switch to a BP/W for single Al 80 diving, I have been led to believe that a steel plate would be better than an aluminum or Kydex plate precisely because it puts the weight on my back--as close to my back as possible--instead of on my waist.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

What about so-called STA-less single-tank plates like the ones from DSS?

It works just fine, and holds the tank very well. As does a single tanks adapter.
Unless someone comes up with some other way to allow two cam bands to secure a tank to a plate, then you options are to either thread the cam band through the plate and then through slots in the wing....OR....use a single tank adapter, which is a pretty simple channel with slots in it, to thread the cam band webbing through.
The single tank adapter gets bolted to the plate, with the wing sandwiched between the STA and plate.

This, much like the STA-less design works just fine and is pretty straightforward.

The issues that many lament about are:

The tank is too close to my head.
The tank is too far.
I'm so unstable!!!
My tank shifts slightly in the bands.
It's the opposite of the one I own.
I read about this guy that had the wing nuts fall off!!!
The little rubber nipples can get lost.
Those little sewn in rods aren't enough.
My tank still wobbles.
This one is so minimal.
This one is a Rube Goldberg contraption.
It doesn't work with everyone's wing.
It works with everyone's wing, but who cares?

STA-less.
Single tank adapter.
Yet to be invented option #3.

I'll leave it to you to draw the lines from the list on the top (in italics) and connect to the list on the bottom (in bold.)

This should cover it:

1.) Some like one.
2.) Some hate the other.
3.) Some like them both.
4.) Most complain about them both (Scuba board effect)
5.) Nobody has bothered to come up with an alternative.....and stick with option 1,2, or 4.

If you choose a STA-less design, you'll save about $65. Other than that, in actual diving use, you may discover as I did, that there is no difference.

Jacket BC users don't have to worry about arguing over all of this stuff.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[lv2dive]

This thread exemplifies that there is no one solution that is right for everyone... And would it not be boring if there was?

The reasons I LIKE a SS plate WITH a STA are some of the reasons other people don't. For the record I prefer a steel BP even with an AL80 so I don't have to concern myself with a weight belt... I like how the weight is evenly distributed across my back. I like a STA bc I'm somewhat vertically challenged and the STA puts the regs over an inch further from my head.

I think my reasons are valid to take into consideration but wouldn't denigrate anyone who felt differently.

---------- Post added January 5th, 2014 at 01:51 PM ----------

This was good! Enjoyed it.

Especially liked "read about this guy who had his wing nuts fall off"

It works just fine, and holds the tank very well. As does a single tanks adapter.
Unless someone comes up with some other way to allow two cam bands to secure a tank to a plate, then you options are to either thread the cam band through the plate and then through slots in the wing....OR....use a single tank adapter, which is a pretty simple channel with slots in it, to thread the cam band webbing through.
The single tank adapter gets bolted to the plate, with the wing sandwiched between the STA and plate.

This, much like the STA-less design works just fine and is pretty straightforward.

The issues that many lament about are:

The tank is too close to my head.
The tank is too far.
I'm so unstable!!!
My tank shifts slightly in the bands.
It's the opposite of the one I own.
I read about this guy that had the wing nuts fall off!!! Yet to be invented option #3.
The little rubber nipples can get lost.
Those little sewn in rods aren't enough.
My tank still wobbles.
This one is so minimal.
This one is a Rube Goldberg contraption.
It doesn't work with everyone's wing.
It works with everyone's wing, but who cares?

STA-less.
Single tank adapter.
Yet to be invented option #3.

I'll leave it to you to draw the lines from the list on the top (in italics) and connect to the list on the bottom (in bold.)

This should cover it:

1.) Some like one.
2.) Some hate the other.
3.) Some like them both.
4.) Most complain about them both (Scuba board effect)
5.) Nobody has bothered to come up with an alternative.....and stick with option 1,2, or 4.

If you choose a STA-less design, you'll save about $65. Other than that, in actual diving use, you may discover as I did, that there is no difference.

Jacket BC users don't have to worry about arguing over all of this stuff.

Cheers,
Mitch