LDS Incompetence

[BRT]

I feel like proper weighting, proper training, good fitting suit and "negative" fins are a better option than ankle weights. I can imagine ankle weights cause cramps and increase air consumption, plus are likely to keep you feet down rather than in proper trim.
With proper fit and proper weighting, feet up ascents should not be a big problem.
During my class, I did a few extra dives as I had an uncontrolled ascent which sort of unnerved me. ( plus I felt I needed more experience in cold,dark water. I had a couple of other issues, unrelated to the drysuit, like mask flooding and kelp entanglement, which caused me some worry due to lack of recent cold water experience. Luckily, my husband was my instructor, so he was more than happy to make sure that I was properly trained.

Lots of "experts" think ankle weights are a bad thing. Lets list some of the advantages. They are weight that I don't notice, not on my back, and I just don't feel them underwater. They keep the lower legs and feet of my suit from inflating out. They are remarkably well positioned to help the #1 drysuit problem of unintended feet first ascent.

 

[doctormike]

Lots of "experts" think ankle weights are a bad thing. Lets list some of the advantages. They are weight that I don't notice, not on my back, and I just don't feel them underwater. They keep the lower legs and feet of my suit from inflating out. They are remarkably well positioned to help the #1 drysuit problem of unintended feet first ascent.

I used to think that I didn't feel them either. Then I switched to gaiters, made a big difference.

Sure, you can count them as part of your overall weighting, but unlike anything on your torso or rig, these are weights you need to move up and down (or side to side) continually in the water, so that definitely adds to your workload and therefore, your gas consumption.

 

[nimoh]

Lots of "experts" think ankle weights are a bad thing. Lets list some of the advantages. They are weight that I don't notice, not on my back, and I just don't feel them underwater. They keep the lower legs and feet of my suit from inflating out. They are remarkably well positioned to help the #1 drysuit problem of unintended feet first ascent.

I don't use ankle weights, can maintain trim and have never been in a feet first ascent (except on purpose), so the main disadvantage to me is that it is something to put on that is unnecessary (which isn't really all that much of a big deal).

So, if you need them to maintain trim or to prevent a feet first ascent, then I agree that you should use them...I don't see anything "bad" about wearing them.

---------- Post added January 22nd, 2014 at 04:16 PM ----------

I used to think that I didn't feel them either. Then I switched to gaiters, made a big difference.

Sure, you can count them as part of your overall weighting, but unlike anything on your torso or rig, these are weights you need to move up and down (or side to side) continually in the water, so that definitely adds to your workload and therefore, your gas consumption.

I didn't consider that, but would consider it to be a fairly major disadvantage.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Sure, I understand, and I didn't mean to sound snarky... a good analogy would be double tanks. I switched to doubles two years ago, and am only starting technical training this year. There is no certification card for double tanks, and if there was I might feel the same way that some people do about dry suit certifications. There is lots of gear that can contribute to an accident if you don't know what you are doing, but don't require separate certifications: doubles, scooters, spearguns... and cameras!

But seriously (because a lot of new divers read these threads), it is definitely possible to have a serious accident because of poor dry suit training (as tracydr pointed out above). A dry suit is only redundant buoyancy, no one should be using it as primary lift. But just because you put the minimum amount of gas in a suit doesn't mean that an inexperienced diver would't over inflate, or not vent adequately as his or her feet were rising, and quickly get into an uncontrollable ascent situation. It can and does happen.

To the larger point, yes, a good mentor is worth more than a bad instructor. But to a new diver looking for training, agencies and certification are the only way that I can think of standardizing training, so that there is at least a minimum level of competency on the part of the student and the instructor. Without that, you would might not really know if your golden mentor was any good or completely off base.

You didn't sound Snarky. Unfortunately, when we write we know our tone. Sometimes it doesn't read the same way. As for you response, Agree.

 

[TecGirl]

There is nothing wrong with taking a class to learn how to dive dry if you ever been in a drysuit before. There are quite a few more ways you can get hurt if the dry suit does not fit you correctly, or if you don't know how to use it. People have died from diving with a dry suit that's too tight! Glad you made it through okay.... What a nightmare experience! Please find a Florida cave driver to do your drysuit class you couldn't find a better instructor.


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[Latitude 59]

End of saga, received a "partial" refund of cost of course from shop owner, which was less than expected considering the hassle/expense I went through but guess something is better than nothing. Most expensive 300 psi of air but whatever. Plan to go fall off a boat, submerge, talk to the sharks. Another life lesson learned. Makes you appreciate Stellar customer service more when you have a bite of bad apple.

 

[FinnMom]

BTW about a too-tight neck seal. My LDS owner is an old timer, told me not to trim the seal but instead to put it over something like a tank overnight to stretch it. I used a volleyball and it worked like a dream.

 

[Storker]

...the #1 drysuit problem of unintended feet first ascent.

Serious question: Have you ever had one? 'Cause I haven't.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I keep seeing this claim all over the place. "OMG, feet first rapid ascent!!!111!!!" I'm diving exclusively dry (except when on vacation), and I've never even been close to one of those. I've had few other - mostly minor - issues, though: Squeeze, failing to anticipate buoyancy changes (leading to some frantic slapping of my arm valve while exhaling sharply), loose neck seal, leaky wrist seals, torn neck seal, condensation inside the undergarments after a a-little-too-hot SI, being uncomfortably hot after donning the gear and before splashing, not enough undergarments, not enough weight after changing to thicker undergarments and failing to control the bubble properly, leading to poor trim. But I've never, ever had anything even close to a feet first ascent; in fact I sometimes stand on my head to move some air into my feet if they're on the heavy side or to get the photo I want. A quick half-somersault to get horizontal or head-up is easily learned, and if I'm too light, feet-up means I can fin down a couple of meters to get the expanding suit air under control again.

In short, I don't think the feet-first ascent is the bogeyman it sometimes is perceived to be, and I think some divers are too scared of ending up in that situation. Yes, diving dry requires some extra skills, but a decent diver can learn those skills pretty easily with a decent mentor or instructor.