Leaving bottles

[down4fun]

For the average decompression dive there is no reason not to carry all your gas with you. Stashing gas on up line is too risky in my opinion. It requires that you a) make it back to the line, and b) that the line still be there. Now there are situations for really big dives where additional gas may be with safety divers, but i view that differently than leaving unattended gas on a line. In the caves we will leave the o2 at the sign and for bigger cave dives, like EN, we may drop off additional gas at the mound and along the line rather than carry everything with us. But that is a pretty controlled environment.

 

[nadwidny]

Haven't done much multi-cylinder cave dives but the few I did we dropped our stages at various places along the line and our O2 at our 20' stop (all Mexico, never been to Florida). For OW I usually I carry all my gas with me but if I need to squeeze into a tight space on a wreck I'll leave them outside what ever hole I'm going in to.

 

[boulderjohn]

Only time I have dived Ginnie was in Cave Class. Instructor dropped his O2 after the Hill 400 jump..........

That should have kept it out of the reach of the typical OW diver trespassing in the cavern zone.

 

[Rainer]

I've always kept mine with me (OW). If you're going to do a wreck penetration that requires you to come back to the entrance anyway, leaving them outside (IMO) isn't an issue (and if it's the only way you'll fit, then a no-brainer if you want to do the dive).

If possible, though, preferable to keep gas with you.

 

[PfcAJ]

Only time I have dived Ginnie was in Cave Class. Instructor dropped his O2 after the Hill 400 jump..........

He probably forgot to drop it at a reasonable spot in the front of the cave. Dragging an o2 bottle to the H400 is stupid and potentially dangerous.

 

[RJP]

If I plan to breathe it... I plan to carry it. (OW)

 

[Splitlip]

Last year a buddy suggested (wet notes) we drop our deco tanks outside the wreck we were visiting so we could squeeze through the hole in the hull we were looking at. I immediately thought of Chris and Chrissie Rouse leaving their tanks outside the uboat and not finding them when they came out another hole. No way!

I have also thought of Bernie Chowdhury leaving his tanks by one of the ascent lines on a wreck and then getting so narced he went up the wrong line. (His conclusion after sever DCS: wear a full face mask with coms so that when you screw up like that again, you can tell the surface to send something down for you.)

That is why I do tend to take everything with me, although I do admit that I leave O2 bottles in caves.

I'm not a tech diver, but I read both books. My butt puckers as I recall the .

I am shocked that divers have issues with rec divers "recovering" their obottles. I work with a cave diver. Before we knew each other and when I learned he was a caver, I did what I do. I told him that I'm "a diver. I was doing a cavern dive and found a couple reels and tanks. Fortunately they had the owners' names on them. I grabbed them up and dropped them at the office." the guy (now friend and buddy) went off on me. By the time I convinced I was ****ing around and he calmed down, I asked how he could put his faith in something he does not have complete control. His reply was no caver is going to touch another's bottle or line.
My questions were what about the ignorant rec diver or the cave diver with a young child who has somehow lost his deco bottle.
I am not tech. And now I know I'm skewing off into hijack territory. But my buddy Scott has blind faith in his cave diving brothers who will not touch his stage or deco bottles left. But what guarantee is there that some brother diver in crisis will die rather than take advantage of somebody else's bottle.

 

[DevonDiver]

Interesting to read this, as I just posted a similar thread/poll - specifically in regards to technical wreck penetrations:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/wr...ions-staging-your-deco-tanks-penetration.html

I wouldn't stage a tank for an open-water tech dive, although I have removed tanks (secured close at hand) on the bottom portion to ease completion of a particular task. In those cases, tanks are secured within eyesight.

For wreck penetrations, I make a risk assessment that balances the dangers of taking the tank inside, versus leaving it secured at the primary tie-off (never at shallow/stop depth). For many of those dives, that means my stages are well below a depth where a 'rec' diver might wander across them and interfere... I'll also be exiting on that line (as per cave diving - in and out along the same route) and will return to my tanks before ascent.
.
Where I may be penetrating within recreational depths (with risk of rec divers passing my staged cylinders) and doing deco because of long bottom times, rather than excessive depth,... I will always leave a 'notice' on the staged tanks. Typically, I'll also ensure I could deco on my backgas - reserving my stages for acceleration only.

As an aside, I've thought about alternatives to leaving a 'notice'... for instance, even padlocking the tanks (this would be on a cut-away) - but would get the message across...

There are dangers in taking stages inside... more risk of entanglement/entrapment.. more risk of damage to the tanks/regs from collision...risk to hoses from snagging... risk of silting from extra equipment/task loading.... however minimal and offset by diver skill. Contrary to the K.I.S.S. principle?


I already dive/penetrate 'pushing tanks ahead', because I use sidemount to access areas beyond the capacity of backmounted penetration. Taking deco tanks along would require substantially more technicality and risk. I plan linear penetration (in-and-out, on the line) rather than a 'circuit' (different entry and exit point), regardless of whether other exits exist...


Cave divers stage deco on the basis of returning along the same path. So why shouldn't technical wreck divers?


Yes, a wreck may present alternative exit points - but. to me, those would generally be for contingency/emergency/escape egress only.

 

[Rainer]

So why shouldn't technical wreck divers?

I think the reason this has fared poorly for some wreck divers in the past, is that they did not employ "cave diving techniques" (namely a continuous guideline) to ensure their ability to exit via the same route as they entered, leaving open the possibility of not being able to return to their staged decompression cylinders.

If you're willing to lay down line and have the skills / procedures to guarantee that you can get back to where you left the cylinders securely attached outside, I see no harm in doing so. If you're instead going to rely on fickle memory to guide your exit (or don't really care where you come out), then best to either keep all bottles attached or simply not bother with any penetrations.

 

[JamesK]

When I am diving in open water, I have all required gas to ascend with me, except when I am sometimes penetrating a wreck, I will drop my stage tanks at my exit point, but only when I have a safety diver. I had a stage tank go walking that I dropped by the chimney at Eagles Nest one time, so it is not always totaly safe to drop you tanks when cave diving either. Whoever (whomever?) took that tank and reg has some bad Karma on them now!!!!

Someone took at tank at EN??? That is shocking to me. I expect it at places like Ginnie, but EN? Just damn!

Would normally take all bottles with me in OW.
We were doing some local dives a couple of years ago where we dropped bottles though. Were basically treating these dives like cave dives (laying a line across an endless silt plain) Put a note on the O2 and had a support diver at the 50%. Leaving tanks anywhere there are OW divers or classes just seems to be asking for trouble.

Only time I have dived Ginnie was in Cave Class. Instructor dropped his O2 after the Hill 400 jump..........

Hill 400 is a long way in to drop an O2 bottle. I am with AJ, I am thinking he just forgot to drop it.

I'm not a tech diver, but I read both books. My butt puckers as I recall the .

I am shocked that divers have issues with rec divers "recovering" their obottles. I work with a cave diver. Before we knew each other and when I learned he was a caver, I did what I do. I told him that I'm "a diver. I was doing a cavern dive and found a couple reels and tanks. Fortunately they had the owners' names on them. I grabbed them up and dropped them at the office." the guy (now friend and buddy) went off on me. By the time I convinced I was ****ing around and he calmed down, I asked how he could put his faith in something he does not have complete control. His reply was no caver is going to touch another's bottle or line.
My questions were what about the ignorant rec diver or the cave diver with a young child who has somehow lost his deco bottle.
I am not tech. And now I know I'm skewing off into hijack territory. But my buddy Scott has blind faith in his cave diving brothers who will not touch his stage or deco bottles left. But what guarantee is there that some brother diver in crisis will die rather than take advantage of somebody else's bottle.

It is very possible that someone could take your bottle still leaving it on a line. However, that is why you plan and manage your gas where you have enough in case that happens. If I breath down a stage and someone takes it, then I still have my reserves in my backgas to make it out, or to my next stage. If my deco bottle goes missing, I go to my wetnotes and look at my contingency deco plan on 32% instead of 100% and deco using my stage or backgas. I just sit longer.