Loaning out gear and liability issues...

[kidspot]

I received a very good PM this afternoon asking me if I had considered the ramifications of loaning out gear to friends when diving... and I figured it would be good to put this up here and get some more input on the issue.

Here's the scoop:
As many of you who read my posts know, I keep a second BP/Wing and Reg set in my truck with my gear for my younger friends who have no gear (most of whom can barely afford the air fills, which I usually pick up anyway...so obviously renting/buying is not an option for many of them yet) Whenever their parents and time permit we will head out, mostly doing 20-40 ft shore dives, usually about 1 hr long.

Here's the reply I gave in the PM -

1) I don't accept any reimbursement of any kind for it.
2) When I loan anything out I make a joke about "if anything goes wrong - it's on your head" etc...
3) Some risks in life are worth taking - I've decided this is one I'm going to take- I've gotten tired of living based upon what others might or might not do - So I am going to be friendly, generous and helpful even if it causes me problems in the future...
4) If I ever get my DM or Instructors certification (definitely thinking about it) I will also get the equipment insurance package (equipment liability for those not covered by a LDS)

So what "risks" are involved and how do you deal with them personally?

Aloha, Tim

 

[Diver0001]

I received a very good PM this afternoon asking me if I had considered the ramifications of loaning out gear to friends when diving... and I figured it would be good to put this up here and get some more input on the issue.

Here's the scoop:
As many of you who read my posts know, I keep a second BP/Wing and Reg set in my truck with my gear for my younger friends who have no gear (most of whom can barely afford the air fills, which I usually pick up anyway...so obviously renting/buying is not an option for many of them yet) Whenever their parents and time permit we will head out, mostly doing 20-40 ft shore dives, usually about 1 hr long.

Here's the reply I gave in the PM -

1) I don't accept any reimbursement of any kind for it.
2) When I loan anything out I make a joke about "if anything goes wrong - it's on your head" etc...
3) Some risks in life are worth taking - I've decided this is one I'm going to take- I've gotten tired of living based upon what others might or might not do - So I am going to be friendly, generous and helpful even if it causes me problems in the future...
4) If I ever get my DM or Instructors certification (definitely thinking about it) I will also get the equipment insurance package (equipment liability for those not covered by a LDS)

So what "risks" are involved and how do you deal with them personally?

Aloha, Tim

One thing springs to mind. I think to limit your exposure you need to keep the gear well serviced and you need to keep good, reliable, verifiable records of the service done.

R..

 

[storm1fishing]

One thing springs to mind. I think to limit your exposure you need to keep the gear well serviced and you need to keep good, reliable, verifiable records of the service done.

R..

purely out of curiosity , do you dive with them when they use this equipment and are they certifird , ect :dazzler1: . this is not a criticism , purely interested as I'm not from the states but from what I hear about civil cases there , you could almost be afraid to help anyone for fear of repocussions if things dont go 100% to plan.
I think its great that you do help people that would like to dive.

 

[miketsp]

I received a very good PM this afternoon asking me if I had considered the ramifications of loaning out gear to friends when diving... and I figured it would be good to put this up here and get some more input on the issue.
..snip..
So what "risks" are involved and how do you deal with them personally?

Aloha, Tim

Assuming we are talking about certified divers, then I believe the main obligation you have is "informational".
If they rented gear from a shop, then they would be able to suppose that it had been serviced/inspected and was in a fit state for use without asking questions.
If it was their own gear then they would know when it was last serviced and what had happened to it since.
If you just hand it over and don't say anything then I would say that you are implying that it is in an adequate state for use.
OTOH if you say something like, "this bc was last serviced in June last year but it's been sitting in the back of my truck for the last 6 months so you'd better check it over..." or "Joe used it last month but he told me the inflator was a little sticky..." then you are making available to them the same information that you had about the BC and as certified divers, it then becomes their decision.
What you don't want is a situation where there is an accident and it turns out that you knew something about the equipment that you didn't pass on.

 

[TomP]

Tim,
I'm not an attorney and don't play one underwater but i think you may have a broader concern about liability here. If, as it seems, your younger friends are minors the perceptions of their parents are likely more relevant than those of your friends. I think the operative question is whether the parents see you as taking their child diving vs you going diving together. The former may convey a presumption of responsibility for the childs safety when diving and many factors other than equipment problems can cause a dive to go bad.

As you say some risks are worth taking. I'd make sure the parents clearly understand the inherent risks of diving and the level of responsibility you believe you are assuming.

And, please reassure us that these are certified divers.

 

[eandiver]

I think it's a nice gesture but the potental for a lawsuit is real if something were to happen.

It could be a problem if someone was not used to the equipment. Like where the dump valve is, flow adjusters on the regs and stuff like that. 20' to 40' is not deep until something goes south and then the surface is a long way away.

 

[captain]

Do any of you not lend other items to friends that could cause harm. Automobiles and and power tools come to mind. Come on folks.

 

[UnixSage]

I would not think twice if a fellow diver wanted to borrow my gear. The fact that parents are involved does add a wrinkle though. You just have to make sure that the parents are clear that the relationship is more equal and that you are not responsible for him any more than any other diver you dive with. Common sence should prevail but you never know.

When I was a teenager I used to ride motorcycles. We would ride on the one farm that the owner had no problem with use riding there. The only thing is that you parents provided a simple note that they were aware I was riding on his property and they would not hold him responsible. Would this hould up in court? Don't know, it was however made it very clear that my parents were aware that I was riding there and we all agree that it is at my own risk. Now if we got hurt, would he help? Take us to the hospital. Call the doctor? Without a doubt (what any of us would do) just he is not working under the fear of a lawsuit. Which I thought it more than fair.

Just my 2 Cents

 

[Corigan]

I've loaned out gear to my best friend and buddy before. I use common sense like stated. If I would dive on it, then I feel it is safe and would let my buddy dive on it. Of course I tell him if something goes wrong, it's murphy and not me. He understands that I am not responsible for what happens, but that the gear is in tip-top shape.

Matt

 

[markfm]

1) Do they have proper certifications, consistent with diving with a buddy (you) who is not a DM or Instructor?
2) Are the parents knowledgeable about scuba, preferably divers themselves? You don't want to dissuade people from diving, but it can be nice to know that the parents appreciate the inherent risks of the sport (stuff happens).
If (1) and (2) are both Yes -- good job, you're building good karma. If either are No, you could be borrowing trouble. (Since, by definition, though not a professional you do know the basics, and your own training drills in making sure you dive with buddies with appropriate skills/certs.)