Long Hoses For New Divers

[jonnythan]

That student just contacted me today with questions about converting to a long-hose configuration.



I've heard way too many arguments why you shouldn't teach this technique or that because "it's too complicated for the new diver" ... I think people who say those things tend to underestimate what a diver is capable of learning if it's presented clearly, and given adequate supervised time to practice the skill. This week-end was a good example ... I pushed my two AOW students very hard, challenged them with skills most divers don't get till they take a divemaster class, and the result was most satisfactory.

Another good example ... one of those students did his first-ever drysuit dives yesterday. On the second dive ... the same dive (and diver) OE2X mentioned earlier ... we did a free ascent from 45 feet with a blue-water safety stop. He handled it beautifully. Not bad for a diver with, maybe, 20 dives under his weightbelt ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Show them the right way, teach them the right way, and set a good example and newer divers can perform well. End of story.

They shouldn't have to do 500 dives and figure it all out on their own that maybe they can dive without being rototillers or that you CAN rely on a good buddy because their instructors dumbed it down and their "experienced" buddies don't know any better either...

 

[Divesherpa]

I've heard people say that someone who is inexperienced shouldn't use a long hose. That this is too complex of a configuration for an OW diver to grasp...

Proof positive that, that ain't the case.

The long hoses that show up on recreational dive boats can be horribly used. They are OK if someone knows how to use them. If not, they are a disaster waiting to happen. It's like this, a long hose is great for: A.) Cave Diving (for restrictions), B.) Some wrecks or C.) getting in the way.

Most of the internet divers who show up with a long hose have no idea how to properly stow one or exactly why a long hose is around in the first place. Ever try an S-drill on a drift dive? Ever try an S-drill with high current?


Before anyone starts with "You should try one before you start talking about them" debate, I have. We practiced air sharing through major backmount restrictions while in a siltout many times. We practiced egresses from 2200' while sharing air. The long hose worked great.

We went recreational diving in the ocean with long hoses. It doesn't take long to realize that doubles on a recreational dive are overkill. Long hoses on a recreational dive are overkill.

How many times have you actually NEEDED a long hose in recreational diving? If your answer is more than ZERO, you may want to screen who you dive with.

Cheers and safe diving,
Jamie

 

[Divesherpa]

Well I know people who will argue that since the long hose was 'invented' as it were for allowing air sharing while going single-file in a wreck/cave, it has no place on a rec diver

Ha, that would be me!

 

[OE2X]

Most of the internet divers who show up with a long hose have no idea how to properly stow one or exactly why a long hose is around in the first place. Ever try an S-drill on a drift dive? Ever try an S-drill with high current?

Yes - I've done S-drills on a drift dive. You go shoulder to shoulder and hold hands. Still far better than a short hose.

No piece of gear should be used without training. It doesn't take that long to explain to someone why a long hose needs to be used or how to use it. Then you do s-drills. No big deal.

How many times have you actually NEEDED a long hose in recreational diving? If your answer is more than ZERO, you may want to screen who you dive with.

In nearly 1000 rec. dives I have yet to have a true ooa situation. When and if I ever do, you can bet that I'll be glad myself or my buddy has an LH. I know my best friend is glad that I had one on Saturday.

 

[lamont]

the thread that will never die...

advantages of a long hose config to a recreational diver...

- keeps regs where a free flow will be noticed
- only 'quick release' in the system is in the mouth -- avoids octos popping out of octo holders accidentally and not coming lose in a real air share.
- optimized for the other diver ripping the reg out of your mouth
- if you get a face full of another divers fin and your reg goes flying your backup is always right below your chin
- long hoses help with face-to-face orientation, and with managing buoyancy -- a minor loss of buoyancy on the part of one diver will not rip the other diver up producing a catastrophic loss of control.

(just off the top of my head, before i run to a meeting...)

 

[GrierHPharmD]

I agree with the long hose argument and use a 7' hose with a BP/W setup on all my dives. It's a great, comfortable and efficient setup. All that being said, I was told in no uncertain terms that I could not use this configuration for either my IDC or my IE. (They cited the "contemporary equipment" quote from the PADI manual.)

So what can you do? I'm not really interested in bucking the system, since I'm at the instructor's/examiners' mercy for the next couple of weeks. That means going back to my jacket and traditional hose setup for the exercises, then switching back as soon as I've got my card in hand.

Who loses? PADI. They lose by not allowing constructive feedback on a change in gear configuration that provides more safety and stability. I have no doubt that their policies will change after enough divers make enough noise, just as they did over nitrox, but we're not there yet.

For what it's worth, I plan to teach my first classes using both types of configuration, to expose my students to the gear that they will encounter on dive boats. I think that we do our students a disservice if we let them earn an OW card without ever seeing a BP/W or long hose configuration. I had never seen that sort of setup until I took my rescue class.

-G

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The long hoses that show up on recreational dive boats can be horribly used. They are OK if someone knows how to use them. If not, they are a disaster waiting to happen.

ANY piece of gear can be a disaster waiting to happen if the user doesn't use it properly. That's kind've goes without saying ... doesn't it ...

Most of the internet divers who show up with a long hose have no idea how to properly stow one or exactly why a long hose is around in the first place.

Most of the people who show up around here with a long hose spend way more time in the water than they do on the internet ... and they're not interested in history. They just want good, solid diving skills.

Ever try an S-drill on a drift dive? Ever try an S-drill with high current?

Actually, yes ... with students, in fact, since a long hose is what I wear when I teach. For that matter, not too long ago I did an air share with one of my regular dive buddies in a 2+ knot current just for giggles ... sailing along side-by-side for maybe five minutes before switching back. Can't do that with a standard rig, ya know ...

We went recreational diving in the ocean with long hoses. It doesn't take long to realize that doubles on a recreational dive are overkill. Long hoses on a recreational dive are overkill.

Perhaps, but if it makes certain aspects of the dive more comfortable, why wouldn't you want to do it?

How many times have you actually NEEDED a long hose in recreational diving? If your answer is more than ZERO, you may want to screen who you dive with.

The assumption here being that the person you will be assisting is, in fact, your dive buddy. That's not always the case. In fact, in the last three years I've twice had to bring up an OOA diver who was not my buddy. In one of those cases, it was a perfect stranger who I haven't seen before or since the incident.

Cheers and safe diving,
Jamie

Likewise ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Bobby]

The long hoses that show up on recreational dive boats can be horribly used. They are OK if someone knows how to use them. If not, they are a disaster waiting to happen. It's like this, a long hose is great for: A.) Cave Diving (for restrictions), B.) Some wrecks or C.) getting in the way.

Most of the internet divers who show up with a long hose have no idea how to properly stow one or exactly why a long hose is around in the first place. Ever try an S-drill on a drift dive? Ever try an S-drill with high current?


Before anyone starts with "You should try one before you start talking about them" debate, I have. We practiced air sharing through major backmount restrictions while in a siltout many times. We practiced egresses from 2200' while sharing air. The long hose worked great.

We went recreational diving in the ocean with long hoses. It doesn't take long to realize that doubles on a recreational dive are overkill. Long hoses on a recreational dive are overkill.

How many times have you actually NEEDED a long hose in recreational diving? If your answer is more than ZERO, you may want to screen who you dive with.

Cheers and safe diving,
Jamie

Funny I can remember when having a second reg was considered over kill and only for those crazy cave divers. It just added another failure point and more gear to take care of which you did not need. Come to think of it they said the same things about BC's, it will rocket you to the surface and the average diver does not need to deal with them. The "Octo" was never meant to be a back up for your buddy it was a back up for yourself, in case your primary reg failed. Back when a single reg was the norm. I have also seen clusters from divers trying to share off an octo and a lot more of those then someone with a long hose.

I teach in a long hose and encourage my students to consider them. In any share air situation it can help calm things down just getting the space to deal with a situation, no matter if it is a true OOA or something easier. A long hose does not have to be 7' either, 5' is much easier to deal with when stowed and works very well unless you are in an over head with a ristriction and that is the reason for the 7' hose.

How many people take the time to keep their octo working properly and stowed in an accessible position. That has nothing to do with a long hose working or not, training and practice is always up to the individual. If ever in a situation that I need to share air I much prefer to have the long hose and not be face to face with someone in a vertical position. If they are panicked in any way I can keep them off me and still let them get the air they need to get through the situation.

Otherwise I guess we should all go back to back packs, no spg, no second regs, and just swim for the surface when it starts breathing hard. Maybe I should fire up a production line and bring back the J valve

 

[Divesherpa]

Long hose discussions to J-valves and vertical divers. Are you reaching a little here?

 

[Divesherpa]

In fact, in the last three years I've twice had to bring up an OOA diver who was not my buddy.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Wow, Bob. Great job bringing up the OOA divers.

What location are you diving that has that many OOA's?

It sounds like those folks need a little refresher course on proper guage usage.