Looking for advice for 1st bp/wings purchase

[ElectricZombie]

jamiei,


You really need two wings, one for singles and one for doubles. If you try to use a wing intended for doubles with a single tank, you will have a lot of air trapping/drag problems. Trust me, I've tried this and it does not work. It may cost a bit more to have two wings but, the expense is worth the results.

I ended up getting a 27lbs Halcyon Pioneer Package. When diving singles, I aways use AL80s so, this is plenty of lift for me. I decided to get the 6lb SS BP so I don't have to wear a weightbelt. I'm extremely happy with it and cannot recommend it highly enough. I priced everything out and it was cheaper and simpler to simply buy a complete Halcyon setup. I think it was $505.00.

For doubles I have a separate wing. (Soon to be replaced with a Halcyon Explorer) So, I have two setups that can manage all the diving I want to do.

As for what type of wing to get, I would go with Halcyon. These things are super tough and designed correctly. You don't have to modify them in any way to make them work; they are ready to go right out of the box. Halcyon wings are really the best IMHO. They also have a good warranty should anything go wrong.

You can always get a Pioneer setup now and just add a doubles wing later on. This is what I would do if I were you.

 

[JohnF]

How much doubles diving will you really do, and in what kind of water? I started with a Rec wing with a single AL80 but soon found it to be all the things the others have said. Not impossible, but hardly perfect for singles diving. I'm not sure if it will work perfectly with heavy steel doubles.

I'm heavier than you so may be floatier, and need more weight, but my 27# Halcyon is just a little shy on lift for drysuit diving (with the warm undies) or with the 7mm wetsuit. It's perfect in warm water in my 3mm.

If you're determined to compromise though, the Dive Rite Rec wing isn't terrible by any stretch of the imagination. Oxycheq has a brand new wing coming out that should give the Rec wing a run for it's money. My advice though, is to look for a 36# Halcyon wing for cold and warm water singles diving, and a good double wing for the dubs.

Also check out the weighted STA's that Scott Koplin makes and now sells thru Oxycheq. Very cool. With an SS STA and the weighted STA you have about 12# right over your spine. I like it a lot.

JF

 

[jamiei]

I think I'm gonna get a FredT alum backplate??? (might change my mind now that I think about it) I like the idea of having ditchable weight. I also plan on using his heavy single tank adapter just to add a little weight back there. I think the Pioneer 27# wing will be enough lift for me since I don't ever use more than 12 lbs (with my bc and 7mm wetsuit) and I think I can get by with less than that eventually.

I was looking at the 27 lb Pioneer wings and see that they have an integrated sta so that avoids the heavy sta from fredt that I had planned on getting with the aluminum bp from him. Should I go with the heavy bp from fredt (9 lbs neg)? Will that be too much for saltwater diving with no wetsuit? I'm now having trouble deciding between the 9lb and 6lb bp... I think the 27lb pioneer is perfect for me for now and if I go ahead and get the SST bp, that will help if I use a doubles wing in the future. Anybody have any suggestions on where to buy the pioneer since I'm here in GA? Will the Halcyon Thanks again guys and keep the advice coming...

 

[Wendy]

You can still use a STA with the 27# wing even though it has the built in one. I have a dive rite STA that I had used with the bigger wing and I figured, why let it go to waste, so I use it too, just makes the whole rig a little more stable I think.

You can order the wing from Extreme Exposure in Florida and you like 30 days to try it and return it if you don't like it.

 

[jamiei]

Anybody have pioneer 27lb wings in stock??? I've called several different places and no one seems to have any of these in stock...

 

[DIR Tec Diver]

Call Dean Marshall at Brownies Southport in Ft. Lauderdale Florida. He has a ton in stock. In fact they have everything you could possible want. Dean is also a GUE Fundamentals instructor so he can help you with any details or questions.

You won't regret the Halcyon, it's a dream baby...

 

[jamiei]

I believe I called Brownies as well and the 27lb wing wasn't in at that time. It was very disconcerting to me that several of the reps from dealers in Florida didn't seem to have a clue... One guy told me they didn't carry Pioneer 27lb wings... That was in high springs... I said, you're a Halcyon dealer, but you don't carry the Pioneer 27lb wing? His reply was to the effect... oh, I don't know that much about all that tech/cave diving stuff. I didn't know that was a Halcyon wing... so and so is the guy that does that here and he's not around.

One other thing thats really bothering me is that I didn't know that these wings don't have an interior bladder like any good bc does. I think a wing, especially something that is made for more technical diving, should have something to protect the air bladder from abrasion/cuts/punctures. From just looking at these wings one could easily assume that the exterior is just a protective cover and that there is a inner, replaceable/repairable rubber bladder. From what I've seen on the board, all you get with a Halcyon wing is the outer, weaved? cover as the air holding body. I don't see the logic there. Is it to cut costs? It obviously is a failure point. I've never really heard of anyone with a bc that isn't almost dry rotted from age having any of the problems that I've heard of basically new Halcyon wings on here. If Halcyon's warranty will cover it, fine... I bet you anything they don't replace every one this happens to. If they did, you would have a recall on your hands. Yes, some of these problems are due to sharp edges on the bp, which seems like in every instance was a Halcyon bp.

A lot of guys/gals on here like to bash manufacturers and thats not what I'm doing because I do like what Halcyon has to offer, but the wing issue concerns me. What concerns me isn't sinking like a rock cause the bc lost its air, its the hassle of having it replaced or even having to buy another wing myself. What does this do to the resale value of their wings???? After hearing all this, I wouldn't dare buy a used one unless I got a killer deal on it cause if you buy it used and it goes out on you... You're stuck with an extra inflator hose and cam straps. It's not that difficult to produce a bc/wing that does what its supposed to and is tough as nails and will endure abuse for quite a few years. You see guys using 20 year old bc jackets quite often and you won't see patches all over the thing either. It's because they have a touch outer shell protecting the inner, rubber bladder. Can anyone give me a good reason why the Halcyon wings don't have a separate inner bladder and outer cover????

 

[Dryglove]

jamiei once bubbled...
Anybody have pioneer 27lb wings in stock??? I've called several different places and no one seems to have any of these in stock...

http://www.mantaraydive.com/ had one in stock last time i was there. You can also try http://www.mbdc.to/

There has also been someone selling new halcyon gear on ebay lately. It might be worth it to ask him if he has any.

 

[ElectricZombie]

jamiei once bubbled...

One other thing thats really bothering me is that I didn't know that these wings don't have an interior bladder like any good bc does. I think a wing, especially something that is made for more technical diving, should have something to protect the air bladder from abrasion/cuts/punctures. From just looking at these wings one could easily assume that the exterior is just a protective cover and that there is a inner, replaceable/repairable rubber bladder. From what I've seen on the board, all you get with a Halcyon wing is the outer, weaved? cover as the air holding body. I don't see the logic there. Is it to cut costs? It obviously is a failure point.

The Halcyon wings intended for technical diving DO have have a inner bladder covered by a shell. (40lbs, 55lbs and 70lbs wings)

The single tank wings (27lbs and 36lbs) do not. I don't think it is possible due to the circular shape of the single tank wings. Even using one layer, the Halcyon single tank wing material is extremely tough. I have not had any problems with mine. It's not a failure point, it is simply not needed.

I'm sure you can find a wing with around 30lbs of lift that has an innerbladder/outer cover. However, it will not be the right shape and will probably not function properly.

The Halcyon single tank wings are very strong and well made. Their double tank wings look bulletproof.

 

[jamiei]

have you read the threads about holes in the 27 and 36lb wings? Some of these were on the first few dives with a new wing. Yes a circular bladder would be harder to fit with an outer shell, but really all you would have to do is sew the shell around the bladder. Maybe I should be saying that Halcyon should finish their bp's better... they do seem well made, but obviously could be made better. Like I said, I am a fan of Halcyon equipment, but I'm not gonna say that anything other than Halcyon "probably won't function properly". Holding air is one of the wings most important functions and a lot of guys on this board have halcyon single tank wings that don't. Thats my point. I'm not sure about the exact construction of the bladder, but the failure point is that anything that pokes that wing is gonna pop a hole in it like a balloon. With a rubber inner, separate bladder it can move and flex independant of the outer shell to help avoid this problem. If some of the other single tank wings that are coming on the market have stronger construction (and we know they'll have the same design/shape), then I may have to go with one of those for a single tank wing.