Looking for Advice on BP/W
- Thread starter jwllorens
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Of course I've got a 60lb wing, a drysuit, and a 6ft closed-end SMB for redundant buoyancy on top of my redundant buoyancy.
So with that, what is your redundant buoyancy?
'
So with your redundant buoyancy that you have already mentioned, what do you have for redundant buoyancy?
it is really a pretty simple question and not in need of your BS meme.
Hmm. As a reference point, I carry 8 on the belt and 1 in the trim ("cam") pocket. In warm salt water in 2/1 shorty, BCD, and al80. I'm 6.1 and 180-190 lb. I could easily lose the trim weight at the start of the dive but then I wouldn't mind more weight in there at the end.
VsubT
Contributor
Just giving the OP an alternative to consider, especially since he says he has trouble with belts, likes the ability to ditch weight, and wants to dive cold water eventually. I really like the options that a harness like this provides, since keeping my rig and my body close to neutral independently makes some emergencies much more manageable.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Lance
cool_hardware52
Contributor
Originally Posted by RJP
Of course I've got a 60lb wing, a drysuit, and a 6ft closed-end SMB for redundant buoyancy on top of my redundant buoyancy.
So with that, what is your redundant buoyancy?
'
So with your redundant buoyancy that you have already mentioned, what do you have for redundant buoyancy?
it is really a pretty simple question and not in need of your BS meme.
So you want to know what redundant buoyancy I carry IN ADDITION TO the drysuit and an SMB with ~70lbs of lift?
Maybe I'm over-tired today, but I hope that you'll either accept that I'm genuinely unsure if that's a serious question, or advise as to what turn of events a diver might encounter that would require redundant, tertiary, and quartanery bouyancy.
I mean, you gotta die of SOMETHING and if I have three bouyancy failures on a dive where I am also incapacitated such that I am unable to crawl out of a cave, walk out of a lake, or pull myself up a mooring line - all with my buddy looking on in amazement without rendering assistance or coming across another diver along the way - then I'm pretty much OK with that being as good a day/way to die as any.
---------- Post added April 15th, 2015 at 12:18 AM ----------
I"m 6'2, 175lbs, dive a travel drysuit, a stainless BP, with an AL 80 in warm water and usually carry 4lbs of lead... in cam band pockets.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
What no weight and trim harness for your 4 lbs?
Tobin
Am thinking of having all my amalgam dental filings replaced with depleted uranium slugs. Coukd shave another pound of lead off... easy.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
I am a fairly new diver, also with very few logged dives. Over the last 5 months or so, I went through the same process that you are going through now. I have been diving my BPW (a DSS stainless steel plate and LCD 30 wing) setup since December. I think I can add a couple of things to what the more experienced folks have already said, that are more from the perspective of a newer/less experienced diver. Hopefully, these things will help.
- Numerous folks have already recommended a basic Hogarthian harness. That's what I went with and I like mine very well. What you should know is that there are several websites you can consult to see how to rig it all up, if you get one via a mail order. AND, I was really surprised at how loose the shoulder straps feel when you're putting it on in your living room and everything is adjusted like it should be. At first, I had mine setup way too tight and it was hard to get in and out of. After some consultation with the fine folks here and tweaking mine a few times, my straps are a lot looser than I thought they would need to be and getting in and out of it is totally easy now, as a result. Of course, this will vary with each person's body size/shape.
- DSS makes top quality gear. I think their back plates have some features and options that actually make them the best back plates you can get. One specific option is that they come in something like 5 different sizes. Most other brands only have 1 or maybe 2 sizes. If you get a DSS back plate, I think it's worth the trouble to get the one that is optimal for your body size. My "size" is Large. I started with a Medium and it was fine. I would still be using it, if I hadn't found another SB'er who had a Large and was willing to swap. The Large is nice for me because it's over 1 pound heavier, which means that much less weight on my belt or in a pocket. I never really noticed a difference in the way the Large feels on my back compared to the Medium.
- If you're going to dive in fresh water with a 3mm suit, you might consider whether you should get an aluminum back plate versus stainless steel. With an AL80, in my local pool, and my 3/2 suit on, I am over weighted with no actual weights on - just the SS plate. And I'm WAY over weighted in just swim trunks and an AL80. Now that I have bought my own steel tanks, which are more negative than an AL80, I would be WAY over weighted in fresh water and a 3/2 suit, with the SS back plate. Thus, I have been considering getting an aluminum or plastic or kydex back plate for warm(ish) fresh water diving. If you get a lighter BP now, you can always keep an eye out for a good deal on an SS plate, later, when you start getting serious about a dry suit and/or more technical training. Bonus: The AL or other plates are less expensive than SS. Bonus 2: If you get a lighter plate, and you DO end up wanting to keep some weight ditchable, for emergencies where you are trying to ease your ability to float at the surface, an AL plate will let you do that, where a SS plate might be all the weight you need, just by itself, so no ditchable weight.
- As you consider wing options, you should consider more than just the lift capacity. There is also shape and serviceability. I have felt like I had an issue once or twice because my wing is horseshoe shaped. That means that when I get in an inverted position, it is possible, with the right maneuvers (e.g. roll to the right to look at a reef wall - especially if you're trying to take a picture, and then pivot to inverted) to end up with most of the air in my BC all trapped over in the right side of the wing, which has no dump valve. Even in normal maneuvers, it would likely have roughly 50% of the air trapped in the right side where it can't be dumped (without doing a major body position change). This experience left me feeling like I want a donut shaped wing, instead of a horseshoe, so that I can dump pretty much all my air from my BC, while still in an inverted position. I have been assured by the more experienced voices here that this is not a significant issue and that once I am more experienced I will not have problems like this with the horseshoe shaped wing. You describe yourself as (it sounds like) pretty similar to me in experience, so you might possibly prefer a donut shape, for the same reason I would like one - i.e. for me, getting the 2% extra capability that the donut offers, to compensate a tiny bit for my inexperience and lower skill level in buoyancy control. That's your call, I just thought I'd mention it, since the more experienced folks probably wouldn't because they don't consider it to be an issue at all.
- Regarding serviceability of the wing: Tobin (cool_hardware_52 here and owner of DSS) has said that the majority of wing repairs he does are to repair a pinch flat. (Tobin, please correct me if I'm wrong) A pinch flat is where something heavy (typically the back plate) hits the wing and pinches the wing between the back plate and some other hard surface. E.g. you drop the assembled BPW and a corner of the BP pinches the wing between the plate and the boat bench or deck. Tobin says dropping a plate onto a wing from just 6" will typically incur some damage to the air bladder inside the wing. I experienced this myself on my last dive trip. On examination, I had 3 small holes in the bladder of my wing that all appeared to be from one hit from the back plate. It put a hole through both sides of the bladder and, it looked like, a 3rd hole through the bladder where it was folded over and under the spot where the first two holes happened. Or it could have been two hits from the plate. Anyway.... I was able to repair the holes myself using some Aquaseal (glue) and 3 patches. The repair was quick, easy, and cheap. And I was able to do it because my wing has a zipper that gives access to the bladder inside. The DSS horseshoe wings all have zipper access to the bladder. I think pretty much every other brand of any style of wing also gives zipper access to the bladder (I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in if that's not true). But, the DSS donut shaped wings are sewn shut - no zipper, so no way for you to patch the bladder yourself in the unlikely event it does get a hole in it. To be clear, I think ALL of the manufacturers would strongly recommend to NOT attempt a repair on your own. But, as far as I can tell, that seems to be mostly to protect themselves from liability and also probably to protect their image somewhat by virtue of not having divers out there complaining about their wing leaking or failing because of a botched self-repair attempt. Despite recommendations against it, a number of people here on SB have repaired their own wings, which is how I learned how to repair mine. And now I am very happy to not have had to miss any dives or borrow or rent another BC because mine got holes in it. I have done a couple of pool training sessions now (working on some advanced certs), since my repair and it is holding up fine so far!
Anyway... from one newish diver to another, I hope this info and perspective helps you with your shopping!
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