Question My debate - go with a BP/W or stick with a back-inflate BC?

[Lorenzoid]

If you rent or borrow a BP/W to try it out, I recommend you: (1) have someone who knows BP/Ws make sure yours is properly adjusted, and (2) use it for quite a few dives before forming an opinion. Some people have said they immediately felt stable with the BP/W and loved how it felt. I hated my BP/W at first. It was only after using it for a while that it grew on me.

 

[Nemrod]

Really? I just completed assisting the Mentor Shipwreck Excavation Programme in Greece less than 2 weeks ago. We'd backroll into the water, but have to remove our kits to climb out on a small ladder. I just dropped down and pulled my kit over my head. It was the first time I've ever had to do this, and it was fairly easy. I think removing the harness like a BCD would be a pain though.



I take it you are diving without exposure protection?

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On a side note, I have used a Hydros Pro. It was nice, but I didn't think it was any nicer than a standard BP/W. I think at times some people simply don't know how to adjust a harness properly, and that may be why they steer clear of that (not trying to kick a hornets here, but I've seen a number of experienced divers, instructors included - all the way up to IT/CD, who didn't understand some key concepts).

I realized before posting the scubabord BP/wing police would jump me for dissing on a BP/wing and I will stay with what I said. I have been doing doff and dons since 1966 and some 5000 dives give or take. I know how to doff and don. We were doffing gear to get dragged back aboard a bouncing RIB. I was able to get my gear off and into the RIB without assistance, but the doff in rough water with camera ($$$) while other divers crowding me and kicking me and the RIB running over me several times, well, that got to be old quickly and I am not sure there is a solution other than to just suck it up and endure which is what I did. It was a CF each time and part of the problem was a diverse experience level of the other divers adding to the CF. There are BCs that are really much easier to get out of (and into) compared to a Hog rigged plate. And to add, I have shoulder injuries and limitations that make the one piece harness sometimes difficult to deal with.

No, I wore a 3/2 shorty suit most of the time but sometimes just a rash guard and neoprene shorts with a neoprene vest. The 86 degree water actually would have been fine with no exposure gear. Yes, I am tired off all the hard parts on a traditional BP/wing:

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I realized before posting the scubabord BP/wing police would jump me for dissing on a BP/wing and I will stay with what I said. I have been doing doff and dons since 1966 and some 5000 dives give or take. I know how to doff and don. We were doffing gear to get dragged back aboard a bouncing RIB. I was able to get my gear off and into the RIB without assistance, but the doff in rough water with camera ($$$) while other divers crowding me and kicking me and the RIB running over me several times, well, that got to be old quickly and I am not sure there is a solution other than to just suck it up and endure which is what I did. But there are BCs that are really much easier to get out of (and into) compared to a Hog rigged plate.

I apologize if I came off as aggressive. In generate I find taking a BCD/BP&W off in the water abit of a PITA. I just don't see much difference with going over the head with a BP&W. I am genuinely curouis what BCDs in your opinion are easier to get out of. This is meant as a dialog, not a religious war.

No, I wore a 3/2 shorty suit most of the time but sometimes just a rash guard and neoprene shorts with a neoprene vest. The 86 degree water actually would have been fine with no exposure gear. Yes, I am tired off all the hard parts on a traditional BP/wing:

Speak for yourself! 86 degrees, and I still want my 5 mil! Just not without a hood. 80 degrees, I will wear one. Earlier this month, in temperatures in the high 70s, I was wearing a pullover vest underneath my 5 mil, my K-01 hood, and on one day I still got a little cold after just two dives!

I can appreciate with a thinner wetsuit or a rash guard that metal parts could be an issue. Not a problem if you are a wimp when it comes to temperature and always wear thicker exposure protection!

 

[WS007]

A BP/W is essential in case one wants double/triple tanks or rebreather units. Not so for recreational single tanks divers - for them the hundreds of jackets on the market are designed (some of these standard jackets claim they can be converted to double tank configuration, but these are compromises)...

My wife and me have the Hydros Pro now since 2017. The D-rings are metal, but small and few (the salesperson told me that one can exchange and/or add D-rings, but I do not know how(I gues I would have the same problem with BP/W)). Otherwise the Hydros is outstandingly comfortable to dive and we both like it ...

My complaint is about the high price and the long-term durability that does not match the high price. In principle one can exchange/renew every part, but the spare parts come at a high price. Each of us had to renew a weight pocket, because the zippers broke. This year Lisi had to exchange a part of the rubber carrying frame, because it was broken (the salesperson in the shop, where she brought the jacket for repair, told her that this happens quite frequently)...

=> In case I would have to buy a new jacket now, I would go for back-inflatable as Hydros, but check other options than the expensive Hydros (in 2017 I was not able to find one that was as comfortable to wear and that had such firmly fixed and easy to remove weight pockets).
MAYBE for BP/W, but certainly not the standard configuration. I remember that I have seen on Safari boats such BP/W from Halcyon with a small and light plate, completely wrapped in fabric. Lot of shutters, so that one can easily undress the jacket on the surface to hand it over to the people in a Zodiac, just like a conventional jacket as the Hydros (Several times I witnessed divers with conventional, standard configuration, BP/Ws asking for a ladder mounted to the Zodiac, so that they could get out of the water ). Firmly attached, but easy to unlock weight pockets (the Hydros weightpockets are outstanding in this respect). I guess that such a BP/W would be even more expensive than the Hydros, but I hope it would be more durable. As I do not need a new jacket right now, I did not do extensive recherches and cannot say what company/configuration exactly...

Wolfgang

 

[Nemrod]

I apologize if I came off as aggressive.

I went back and added a . I also realized my post sounded harsh when I really only meant scubaboard wing/BP police as kidding as I am generally one of them . In the sports car world it is often said that Miata is Always the Answer and likewise in the scuba world a Wing/BP is ALWAYS the answer. BECAUSE IT IS!!!!!!!!!!

No, your post was not aggressive and I did not take it that way at all, thank you. And I am a wimp and becoming more of one with each passing year .

 

[Chavodel8en]

I dive in the Monterey Bay, CA area - 7mm wetsuit with a 5/3mm hooded vest over my core. I do want to travel in the future - I can pack a BP into my luggage I think?

I am also a Monterey/Carmel diver who also travels sometimes...

For local diving I like a SS BP & W, as it allows me to take some lead off elsewhere. This is a rig optimized for local diving. If you want a cheap BP/W, there is the Dive Gear Express version. However, taking a heavy BP on vacation wont work for me with airlines ~40 lb limit. And I'd have too much ballast for tropical diving.
BTW, I halfway agree with Nemrod's concerns about ease of donning/doffing a BP/W. I honestly would prefer an adjustable harness, but Im a cheapskate, so I got a basic one. And it works for my local shore diving - I can don/doff at my leisure.

People extol the modularity of a BP/W - "Oh, you can just change out the BP to a soft plate or aluminum BP for travel." Yeah, its a PITA chore. Its worth it to me to have an a completely different rig for tropical diving - I bought a cheap back inflate (HOG Travel Pro). Honestly, I probably shouldnt have bought it. Since my wife doesnt dive I dont do dive-centric vacations, I sneak away for a couple of dives here or there, so I mostly dont bring a BC, just rent.

But since you mentioned the Hydros Pro, frankly, it seems like money may not be an issue for you, so you can consider getting two rigs optimized for your local and your travel diving.

Or, note that before, I used a back inflate BC, and I used it for both local and travel - no complaints. So perhaps the Hydros Pro can do that dual service for you - I've never used one before, but it does look nice.

One thing I like is having 2 tank bands. Ive seen so many instances of tanks slipping, that I want security there.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

One thing I like is having 2 tank bands. Ive seen so many instances of tanks slipping, that I want security there.

This is a really good point and not frequently mentioned. Two tank bands is a must for me. While this doesn't technically require a BP/W, I'm not sure how many standard BCDs have two bands. If there are any, they are rare.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

This is a really good point and not frequently mentioned. Two tank bands is a must for me. While this doesn't technically require a BP/W, I'm not sure how many standard BCDs have two bands. If there are any, they are rare.

There used to one a long time ago but I can’t remember the brand or model. AFAIK, there are no jackets that have two cam bands on the market currently, but like I said IDK for certain because that is an alien universe to me. I’m not sure about back inflates or hybrids either ( to be honest I don’t know the difference). I’ve been a BP/W person now for about 23 years.

 

[Powereng]

Just to throw another option at you OP. I was in the same position as you and opted for the Scubapro Sea Hawk II. Back inflate, ditchable weight pockets, trim pockets, and storage pockets, no cumberbun, just a cinch belt and way cheaper than the Hydro Pro. I just did my first few dives with mine in Belize this past week. Felt super stable with a single tank and unit packed down nice and flat in my suitcase.

 

[Kendall Raine]

I’m not opposed to buying one used from a LDS rental fleet. It’s basically a BCD that thinks it‘s a BP/W without the modularization. Scubapro rules the gear market here so little problem getting service.

on the MIB quote, wasn’t it Zed who said that?
My LDS is happy to rent me an OMS or Scubapro S-Tek BP/W if I ask. I’ll get one next time.

What follows is one person's opinion based on diving a BPW for 30 years in o/w and overhead-wrecks/cave-in everything from a single AA72 to double AA130's with stages (only change to configuration is wing size). Only thing BPW doesn't do is sidemount. Others may get aggravated/offended/argumentative by this but that's not my intention. Again, one man's opinion. BTW, Scubapro rules nothing in the on-line world. You have a lot of choices.

The "BCD that thinks its a BP/W" is a compromise without value. Marketing designed to get BCD wearers over the emotional trauma of change at premium cost and loss of modularity/configurability. Why bother? The Hydros seems pretty/well made but an absurd price point and design limited.

Suggest you rent see if you like how BPW feels, and, if you go with a BPW consider putting one together from components so you get exactly what you want. That's the beauty of the modular design so why not take advantage of it?

For example, there are lots of wings to choose from-different brands, lift capacities and shapes. Suggest for cold water/steel tanks 30-36 lbs lift.

For warm water aluminum tanks suggest 20-25 lbs lift.

You may find you like more lift since it floats you higher on the surface. A bigger wing is marginally more drag but you won't notice the difference.

I'm a big proponent of one piece of continuous webbing. Lets you put the hard wear wherever you want and don't worry about plastic buckles that break and create excess webbing (Irish Pennants)-they're danglies and unnecessary once you get the rig dialed. I also prefer an STA over a lace through cam band because I think they're a bit more stable and give you more options of wings and plates (some don't have cam band slots).

A plate is a plate. Simpler is better. No advantage to new. ALs can be had used for $50. SS used for $100. Indestructible so why pay for new? 10-12 feet of 2" webbing (stiffer is better) plus softer webbing for crotch strap (can buy these pre made/sewn) if you prefer. Hardwear is ubiquitous. I think bent d rings at the shoulder are nice but not necessary-easy to convert straight to bent with a vice and a hammer. Fixed d rings are silly.

Budget: $50-100 for used plate. $20 for stiff continuous webbing. $10 soft webbing crotch strap w/d rings. $20 for hardwear (2" d rings bent and regular + triglides + stainless buckle). Wing (new) $250. $50 for STA (with bolts). $30 for two cam bands. $430. You can pay less by looking around or a lot more by not.

You can even buy a complete (lace through cams and plastic buckle-yuck) set up (e.g. HOG) for even less (~$365) if you want to go that way.

Compare that to the type of faux BPW you're talking about. Classic example of less is more.