New Florida dive flag law coming on July 1, 2014

[scubadada]

These kinds of stories frighten me far more than any other with regards to diving.

As they should, me too.

 

[The Chairman]

I decided to send this to the Honorable Holly Raschein this evening:

Recently you co-sponsored a bill about dive flags/buoys and I'm wondering if I could discuss this with you. While I applaud the inclusiveness that the addendum contains, it doesn't go near far enough to address several important concerns that the stake holders, ie Scuba Divers. would like to see addressed. The largest community of Scuba Divers in the world is having a discussion about this very topic, and I would appreciate your reading and possibly addressing it with regards to further amending the current laws. It does nothing to address the definition or use of Safety Sausages in Florida waters in lieu of a dive flag. Here is a link to the discussion: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/fl...orida-dive-flag-law-coming-july-1-2014-a.html

You may or may not realize it, but due to our relatively warm waters, Florida is the site of choice for many instructors, especially for deep, technical dives, even from outside our fair state. A technical dive is anything that is deeper than 130 ft, includes a mandatory decompression stop, uses specialty gasses (such as trimix or pure oxygen) or entails overhead environment like entering into a ship wreck. During such dives, which may reach depths in excess of 200 feet, dive flags carried by divers become yet another risk. A snag by a passing boat could pull a diver way too shallow causing an injury, and on a wreck the various parts of the wreck can foul it as well, again putting the diver's safety and that of their team at risk.

Currently, divers are taught to carry an Safety Sausage or other SMB (Surface Marker Buoy) and then "shoot" this buoy when they are shallow enough (@ 60 ft) by attaching it to a line and then partially inflating it with air or other gas. As it ascends, the SMB completely fills and this gives the chase craft an idea where the divers are in the water. If there is more than one team, they can actually be more than a mile apart due to currents, making it impossible for the chase craft to keep the dive flag within the proscribed limits. Most of these SMBs are 6 ft in length and 6+ inches in diameter, so they're easier to see than a dive flag by any boat. This is a technique employed by many spear fishermen in addition to tech divers. It's also used by average divers when they become separated from the main dive flag, so it's already wide spread through out the state. This should also be included in the current laws as a few other ideas mentioned in that discussion.

As you might see, I live right around the corner from your office in Key Largo. I'm also the owner of that largest community of Scuba Divers in the world. I've discussed this with Officer Dave Bingham of the FWC and would like to facilitate a real dialog between yourself, FWC and the Scuba Community in order to have a Diver Down Flag law that makes sense, includes real world applications and that can help engage boaters to be more responsible. I was shocked two years ago when our post Mini Season headline in our local paper read "NO ONE DIED!" That's an indictment, not a headline. FWIW, I've never heard or seen the buoy contrivance mentioned in the new law. Do we even know that it works? That Scuba Divers would be willing to use it? Safety Sausages (SMBs) have already been accepted by the dive community and we would like to see them become legal as well.

Thanks for your time and consideration. I'm at the Scuba Show in Long Beach this weekend, trying to get more visitors coming to Florida. You can always reach me by Email or phone: (407) 509-0947. Maybe we can do lunch over at DJ's Diner next week if you're in town?

Sincerely yours, Pete 'NetDoc' Murray, the Chairman of the ScubaBoard.

You can send your own here: E-Mail Representative Holly Merrill Raschein

 

[Johnoly]

The bill was presented to the Gov yesterday. He has 14 days to either sign it, veto it, or do nothing and it become law. This is the bill's last stop.

 

[The Chairman]

No response yet from Ms Raschein. Not even an note that she has even read the message.

I think it's time for a number of us to start bombarding the state with a request to make this happen.

 

[J_Rod]

Anybody got an Alpha Flag ticket lately?? They can pass whatever they want to...unless you get an a-hole FWC (there's a few)...this too shall pass. I'll do my part, NetDoc, and email Ms. Raschein, but don't count on a response...Until the law is signed...then you can count on a boilerplate response.

UPDATE: Signed into law on 6/13. Get your response yet?? Can't wait to see all these 3D flags for mini-season!!

 

[Mgreenfield63]

A law was recently passed in Florida, to go into effect at the end of this month. I've asked for a copy of the law, but haven't received it yet. Anyone up on this?

There seems to be alot of misinformation on this simple change. I'm actually one of the people who helped push for this change. A friend of a friend lost both of his legs after being struck by a boat, all because the captain couldn't see his dive flag. As an avid boater and diver, I know firsthand how important safety is. I understand how some of this could be confusing but the Florida bill was made to allow, under current Florida statute, a legal alternative to the current ineffective dive flag. The new bill allows a three side or a four sided floating bouy style flag. You can still use the current flag, but now there is at least another option.

The current flag with the foam ball pulls the flag flat and becomes invisible under tow, and completely disappears when you dive deeper than the tow rope, you can't see the flag from a boaters view depending which way the wind is blowing, you cannot night dive with the current flag, as it lacks lighting or any reflective capabilities. Can you do a shore dive at night with the current flag? Not safely. There is a website that has pictures of one of the alternative flags that I have seen, I have also heard of but not seen one from Brownie's that is in the works (Brownie's Marine Group). One website currently displaying the new buoy style dive flag is www.buydiveflags.com

 

[iluvtheocean]

going by the pictures on the website -- it appears that it sits LOWER in the water than a normal flag. does not appear to be any more reflective than the vinyl flags i've seen. a spot on top can be used for a flashing white light -- which is nothing really new either... and it will create additional drag being not much more than the equivalent of a styrofoam cooler with a dive painted on each side & a battery operated light stuck on top

i can think of a few mods that would work better...

Netdoc's point was that it does not appear that divers in FL were consulted on what would be better than the old-fashioned dive flag and instead what was approved appears to be monetarily driven. None of us are disputing the fact that the std dive flag isn't necessarily adequate but are upset that what was approved as an "alternative" is not in our best interests. Netdoc brought up very very good points in regards to the SMB and which of course is NOT addressed at all in the revised law.

Your point "lacks lighting or any reflective capabilities" --- those are both items that could have been addressed by products to add to a dive flag. the website in your post appears to be created JUST to market this new item -- instead of what the name suggests which would be the various dive flags configurations avail. (ball float, torpedo, inflatable, etc) as well as the "new" product.

So prove to us divers that you didn't just have this done to make money at our expense without addressing the real issues with the dive flag law...

 

[The Chairman]

FWIW, I am meeting with Ms Raschein on the first of next month. Any and all input would be appreciated.

 

[DennisS]

It looks like a float that needs to have a shaft attached to get the flag out of the chop.

One of the problems with the current buoy/flag combos is that they don't get the flag high enough out of the water. People don't realize how bad the visibility is looking through a salt spattered windshield as your heading into the sun, if there is a chop you need to get a big flag, 3-4 ft above the surface

 

[iluvtheocean]

FWIW, I am meeting with Ms Raschein on the first of next month. Any and all input would be appreciated.

SMB use and a std sizing that would be required. 6' is what i see most people have in orange or yellow. either color? a white light/flasher can be added to many dive flags as a clip-on to the pole to help with night visibility and isn't a white light/flasher coast guard rules for small boats like kayaks at night?

---------- Post added June 24th, 2014 at 03:42 PM ----------

It looks like a float that needs to have a shaft attached to get the flag out of the chop.

One of the problems with the current buoy/flag combos is that they don't get the flag high enough out of the water. People don't realize how bad the visibility is looking through a salt spattered windshield as your heading into the sun, if there is a chop you need to get a big flag, 3-4 ft above the surface

what kind of height is needed is the question then..... and should a boat flag be the std size in the future?
the rod in the current flag combos can be replaced with a longer one.... but would a larger float be needed or just an additional weight for counterbalance?