No certificate

[Al Mialkovsky]

I don't really see why some one who is strong and comfortable in the water should have trouble learning to dive outside of the programs offered by certification agencies. Sure there are things you need to know but none of what's taught in your typical class is very complicated.

Pretty dangerous Mike. Consider that when you say things like this you might very well be encouraging someone who isn't strong and comfortable in the water to train themselves, or have a novice buddy train them.

After all guys all think they're strong.

 

[Damselfish]

Is it illegel in the USA to dive or buy scuba gear without a diver certificate,and who has the power to enforce it if there are laws?

There are rules most shops follow but no laws except the law of natural selection.

It is possible to learn to dive on your own but that made more sense years ago before classes were commonly available, obviously people had to start someplace. It's also true you can learn things from other more experienced divers. But there is no good reason not to take a class and get certified, and so many reasons to do so. Some will say classes are not perfect, which is true, but they are a good start and are bound to cover many things you were probably not aware of even though you think you know all about it. Your questions are evidence you don't.

 

[DennisW]

Gary, Love your reply.

fin-in, get certified and learn about SCUBA. You will learn a lot and be a whole lot safer for it. Lack of training can kill you. And, yes a lot of people learned to dive own their own a while ago. Some of those people are safe divers even today. Some of them didn't make it. Most that learned on their own eventually took certification courses to become safer divers. No one on this board or anywhere else wants you to get hurt. Do the right thing and become a safe diver.

 

[DandyDon]

There are rules most shops follow but no laws except the law of natural selection.

And liability laws.

But if he is already getting fills somewhere to dive for golf balls...??

 

[Darnold9999]

Diving without a cert card is pretty easy in many parts of the world. Locally you can buy a compressor and used gear is always an option. However diving with anyone who carries insurance without a cert card is very difficult. Getting air, boat trips, Nitrox, etc. will always be a pain as anyone with insurance will be invalidating their insurance by selling you any dive service without seeing the card.

This will restrict your access to many of the best dive sites in the world. For the very small cost of an open water course you open these sites up to yourself and you might even learn something that could save your life.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

Fin-in, what you have to realize is a lot of what is known about diving today was learned at the cost of someone's life. Learn from the mistakes of others, take a class, no point in dying unless you think you have some new point you want to teach the diving industry. A solid scuba education will tell you if your "point" has been died for before, no points for repeats :biggrin:

Enough of that. Welcome to a great place to get a start on becoming an informed diver. Just the fact that your asking questions tells us you're interested in learning, get certified and come diving with us. There are probably plenty of divers here from your local area.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[HowardE]

Diving without a cert card is pretty easy in many parts of the world. Locally you can buy a compressor and used gear is always an option. However diving with anyone who carries insurance without a cert card is very difficult. Getting air, boat trips, Nitrox, etc. will always be a pain as anyone with insurance will be invalidating their insurance by selling you any dive service without seeing the card.

This will restrict your access to many of the best dive sites in the world. For the very small cost of an open water course you open these sites up to yourself and you might even learn something that could save your life.

I get nitrox fills w/o showing a card. I won't say where... But they've never asked to see my card.

 

[captain]

Bad examples since those are all things that most classes do a pretty poor job of teaching.

The typical OW class...
Gives lip service to buddy diving. You read about it but never actually have to demonstrate that you can plan and conduct a dive with a buddy. You usually spend what little OW tour time you get following the instructor in a pack.

Dive planning? They rarely even teach you how to plan your gas so you know that you have enough to surface you and your buddy.

Safety stops are explained right on the dive table but I haven't seen many OW classes that test your ability to perform one without holding onto a line.

Buoyancy control? most OW classes spend most of their time on their knees and wallow around big time during their very short OW dives with at least some agencies not even requireing the student to be neutral throughout the dive. It's another thing they give lip service to and then tell you that you'll get it with experience.

Training is good but finding training that does more than teach you to kneel on the bottom and breath is the hard part. There are certainly people that can't do that without freaking without a pro to help them but other folks don't have much trouble.

I think part of the reason that people have so much trouble with diving is that we take people who can barely swim (or not at all), who haven't spent much time in and around the water and are terribly out of shape and try to teach them to dive. Maybe the agency stance that diving is for every one is what creates the need for their brand of instruction/certification?

I don't really see why some one who is strong and comfortable in the water should have trouble learning to dive outside of the programs offered by certification agencies. Sure there are things you need to know but none of what's taught in your typical class is very complicated.

I agree, open water diving in recreational depths is not rocket science. Anyone who is in reasonal physical condition, a good swimmer and comfortable in the water and willing to read and pratice the the information available, progressively gain experience can learn to be a safe diver. That person may actually learn more than the one who took a course just to get a card for a once in a lifetime trip to the tropics. Obviously someone who has been mucking around in a zero vis water hazard is comfortable in the water. Most certified unlimited vis warm water divers would probably be apprehensive in a 15 foot deep zero vis water hazard.

The inability to get air fills and charter trips is a seperate issue and either certification or a personal compressor will solve it.

 

[SamDiver14]

Try looking in the back of Mr. Exley's blue cave diving manual, there are a list of instructors that were certified cave diving instructors. Now go through and strike through the names of the instructors that are dead...... not many left, and these are the highly trained professionals........ maybe training is not worth much........ but those that are still alive would say that their continued participation in this sport and breathing all the time is due to their training.

 

[captain]

Try looking in the back of Mr. Exley's blue cave diving manual, there are a list of instructors that were certified cave diving instructors. Now go through and strike through the names of the instructors that are dead...... not many left, and these are the highly trained professionals........ maybe training is not worth much........ but those that are still alive would say that their continued participation in this sport and breathing all the time is due to their training.

Comparing cave to open water rec is comparing apples and oranges. Commercial and military pilots all get a similar degree of training but I would be willing to bet that percentage wise more pilots are killed in jet fighter accidents than in commercial airliners accidents.