Online sales

[Divin'Papaw]

I agree, the business model that everyone dislikes so much is being sold to the LDS's by companies like Scubapro and Aqualung. I try to research the companies as well as the products when I make a purchase. As a matter of fact I recently decided to upgrade my regulator and had norrowed my search down to two regulators. In the end the business practices of one of those companies swayed my decision to purchase in the other direction. If we as consumers stop buying products from the likes of these companies, things WILL change.

Same thing with me, except mine was a regulator (1st and 2nd stages) for my pony bottle. There were quite a few good regulators that would have worked, but I found the best price I could find online from one of the most forward-looking of the major vendors ... Oceanic.

 

[mike_s]

All true. Manufactures dictate to the local shops what they can do. Unlike some online companies who they cannot control. Don't always blame the LDS for the pricing. The poor guy is just following his dealer agreement so he can be there to service those brands.

I gotta agree with AWAP's reply to the above statement. Most shops can do something but most choose not to.

With Aqualung, the manufacturer does set the price. There is a whole other set of threads on this as to whether that is legal or not. But many other manufacturers might have MSRP and MAP prices, but they could care less what an item is sold for.

Aqualung's dealer agreement won't allow them to sell for below 10% below MSRP. Seeing how the markup is easily 50%, a dive shop is stupid to loose a sale where they only make 20% instead of 50% trying to compete. Otherwise they only make 0%, which will cause them to go out.

As one other poster said, it's more a choice of who we choose as manufacturers.

One of these days Aqualung will wake up and see that the world has changed around them. But they won't open their eyes all the way to see what's really happening. Instead of realizing what change is happening, they will blame the world for the change and for their demise.

 

[Skooter]

I will agree with AWAP and the above post. Fortunately my LDS is a free spirit and will work with his customers to make the sale right. From the sounds of a few of the others here I have to be grateful to have a good LDS to work with, that gives me honest answers on equipment. Unfortunately Aqua Lung and a few of the other manufacturers are stuck in the "good ole days" and not looking at the consumer trends. Hopefully that changes soon.

 

[waynel]

I've got to agree with Far X. The LDS is more than a place to buy gear. It's like the old Mom & Pop diner, or barber shop where neighbors used to hang out. In our quest for cheaper products, we've exchanged community for savings. Instead of spending $5 for breakfast and conversation at Mom & Pops, we're driving through McDonalds for the $4 breakfast combo, running home and getting online. And God forbid we should spend a few extra dollars at our LDS, supporting a small business owner (instead of a corporation). And we certainly don't want to spend our dollars in our local town, where that money turns over several times helping our local enconomy. No, let's chat with the online people we will never see and send them the dollars our local community could use. I don't know about you, but as much as I enjoy this board, I really love meeting divers in person (like at my LDS). To illustrate my point, there is a thread in the Cozumel section of this board where two dinners are scheduled for SB's who will be in Coz over Carnival week. Yeah, I will pay a a little extra to support my "money grubbing" LDS. Because he's also my neighbor living in my home town. I'd rather help feed his family than someone half a world away. Anyone who is struggling to hold on to a small business, battling the Bix Box stores, knows what I'm saying. No, I don't own a small business. It's old school, but I've lost so much "community" that besides the adventure, I became a diver...to try and get some of that back.

 

[mike_s]

Well in the past 10 years or so, we've had at least 10 dive shops in my local area (within 1 hour drive) go out of business.

Why? They can't complete with a changing business model, have low sales because of that business model, or choose manufacturers with policies that hinder sales openly.

In that same past 10 years we've had about 2 dive shops open new stores. Of those 2 shops, one never really got it's doors open before it went out of business.

We have one shop now that is only open on Saturdays, and he's close half of them. I have no clue how he stays in business.


I predict that we'll see more dive shops closing and very few opening with this mentality and poor business model.

 

[undefined]

waynel,

If you're done with the soap box I'd like to use it now...

It sounds like you have a great LDS. Be thankful. Not all of us experience the same thing.

1. I walk into my LDS which pushes Scubapro almost exclusively. The do not carry my size (Men's Medium, very rare size I guess) or my wife's size (Women's XS, also very rare).
2. They do not offer to help with anything but cringe when we actually PUT ON a BC to see it if fits.
3. I ask about computers. They have a nice display case and pull out only the specific computer that the sales person favors. Not willing to show other computers it seems.
4. They tell me about how great AI computers are because the analyze the actual nitrogen and oxygen content of the air and know precisely how much of each your body has absorbed. It's very interesting to hear this, as Suunto never bothered to put that in their marketing material. An integrated O2 analyzer sounds neat...
5. Their computer costs $500 over what is "normal" for this model based on reading what OTHER people have paid at THEIR LDS.
6. They are not an Oceanic dealer. When asked about Oceanic gear "Oh, yeah, we used to be an Oceanic dealer but their equipment wasn't up to our standards." followed immediately by "But we're in the process of becoming an Aeris dealer" (HELLO? Same family of gear!)
7. Every item that I looked at, once the salesman did become involved (after asking about computers) ended up not being good enough by his standards unless it was the most expensive.

Now let me compare this to my recent Scubatoys experience.

1. I asked for Joe or Larry, I got Joe on the first try. No dealing with young underlings...
2. I asked "Is it true what you have on your site about price matching?" and was told "Yep. We price match to anyone."
3. I listed off the gear that I was considering and received detailed opinions about each including other recommendations. The recommendations were all for LESS EXPENSIVE items that Joe felt were a great product regardless of the lower price. Not once did he try to upsell or push a bigger package (we were already looking at pretty darned close to the best I believe)
4. Once we had hammered down a list of gear he put together a package price that beat even Leisurepro without me having to haggle with him on individual items.
5. I made more than one change to my order and always received the highest level of help and customer service.
6. My gear showed up two days after shipping. Did I mention he threw in free shipping and I did not have to pay tax?

The dive community concept is nice. My instructor in TN has a dive club that does trips. Great! Trips and air fills are one thing. When it comes to equipment purchases, my LDS does everything but buy me a drink before asking me to bend over. If I wanted to get assaulted in that way there are parts of Antioch (South Nashville) after dark that would be just as efficient and far less expensive.

 

[oly5050user]

I gotta agree with AWAP's reply to the above statement. Most shops can do something but most choose not to.

.yes the dealer agreement is no less than 10% discounted...but if purchasing a package,lets say a regulator /bcd/gauges package from AL and a wet suit from a manufacturer that has no limiting agreement--sell the regulator at msrp and discount to customer by selling wet suit at a great discount ,use imagination perhaps throw in a gear travel bag,free air fill pass,etc...Some packages I have put together have worked out that the customers gets the suit at no charge..

 

[mike_s]

I gotta agree with AWAP's reply to the above statement. Most shops can do something but most choose not to.

.yes the dealer agreement is no less than 10% discounted...but if purchasing a package,lets say a regulator /bcd/gauges package from AL and a wet suit from a manufacturer that has no limiting agreement--sell the regulator at msrp and discount to customer by selling wet suit at a great discount ,use imagination perhaps throw in a gear travel bag,free air fill pass,etc...Some packages I have put together have worked out that the customers gets the suit at no charge..

I fully understand that, but that's kinda a grey area. In Aqualungs view they still want this super value add brick-n-motar dive shop relationship that sells it at full list price. They frown on that use of imagination of giving freebies to make a package deal cheaper. they want the Evil Empire to rule forever.

 

[waynel]

undefined

Yes, we do have a great LDS. There used to be two in Lafayette, LA and now there is only one. The reason? Because the LDS left standing was better. Nashville is certainly much larger than Lafayette (150k pop.) Just curious...I wonder if the majority of complaints about LDS come from larger cities? I've lived in both Houston and New Orleans and know the large city environment. It might be that a good small business (like an LDS) can only thrive in a smaller community. Very difficult to be evil when you have to do business with the same faces over and over again. Just a thought. The soap box is now vacant. My apologies. We're just small town folk here.

 

[undefined]

waynel,

My apologies as well for coming off as crass as I did. I have LDS envy. I've been to the major ones in my area and have been let down in every possible way (service, attitude, price). I actually saved enough on buying two sets of gear to buy a compressor - that pretty much eliminates the old "air fills" argument in favor of the shop. I envy the social aspect that I hear so much about, but it's hard to feel real social when the service is subpar and the price is at or above MSRP.

I figure it this way - I'm doing my part to ensure that divers in the greater Dallas, TX area will always have a great LDS (Scubatoys). Maybe someone can convince them to open up a branch office in Music City for us country folk who don't like getting reamed on dive gear.