OOA question. Who is teaching to give your main unit?

[El Orans]

I donate my (long-hosed) primary.

My bungied backup gets used every dive (usually during the safety stop).

As an aside, even if I carried an octo to share, and kept it in the PADI recommended location, how's the OOA diver supposed to see it unless he's underneath me, looking upwards?

They probably expect you to be vertical (or on your knees)...

 

[SparticleBrane]

Let's think about why would the cert agencies recommend NOT donating your primary?

Could it be that the concept of having 2 divers without a regulator in their mouth isn't safe (at least at the intro level)?

No, it's because most of today's basic scuba courses barely teach people how to get in the water as it is, and they feel most people are too stupid and not skilled enough to learn how to donate from the mouth.

Amazingly enough the program I work with teaches all basic OW students to donate from the mouth while horizontal and to hold trim and buoyancy while doing so. You CAN teach this at a basic OW level -- it isn't difficult.

 

[psychocabbage]

What you just posted tells us many things about you. First, you are not as comfortable in the water as you think. If you cannot be without air for a few moments, you're not comfortable. If someone comes up to you for air and is freaking out, YOU should be comfortable enough to hand off your primary reg and switch to your backup. Note that this is why most people who donate from the mouth have their octo as a 'bungied backup' on a short hose, right under their chin. The primary is passed off and the octo is put in place a second or so later.

What is it they say about people who assume?
hahah
Am I comfortable OOA in the water? Ya.. Enough that I can say I just dont panic.. But the scenario isnt about me going OOA, its someone else failing at their diving..

You say that you will be the one giving assistance. In many cases, you'll be the victim of an underwater mugging, such as in this video -- note how the girl went for the reg in the camera guy's mouth. Chances are you're giving up your primary either way. In many cases you'll also be lucky if you aren't dragged to the surface by the person that approached you for air.

Odds of anyone overpowering me in any situation are highly unlikely... Now on to the OOA scenario.. Part of my training was how to maintain the control of my main reg..
And to understand that my knife was a tool used to keep people from stealing my reg...
I would much rather have 1 person float than 2..

How do you know the octo is working? Most divers let it dangle, taking a nice journey through the silt, hitting the coral (and killing it ), probably banging around on the wreck... Most divers don't check their octo to see if it works before the dive (heck, most don't even check their primary).

There is NO GUARANTEE that your octo works, especially if your setup is like most other divers. If someone approaches you for air and is freaking out, having to hunt around for an octo clipped onto your BC somewhere (I've seen them stuffed in pockets, clipped on so they can't come off, practically hidden...) is the LAST thing they want to do. They want air, and they want it right then. If they can't find your octo, or can't get it to work, they're going for the one in your mouth or they're headed to the surface.

Does my octo work? Ya. How sure am I? I am the one that maintains all our gear. I actually was breathing off of it yesterday.. My octo is also tethered to my BC when I dive so I dont go dragging it through silt or sand..

My octo and my main unit are tested above before we ever go diving. Why? We were trained and understand that our life support equipment is vital to our lives..

Sure some people are just. well stupid.. They need to learn how to do it right or just quit..

The attitude of "I'm saving you, so you can deal with what I give you" makes you sound a bit pompous -- really comes across as "I'm more important than you". Start thinking about your fellow divers and have some compassion for someone in a bad situation. Donate your primary regulator -- it's faster (no hunting for it since you know where it is), you know it works, and if you dive a bungied backup setup, you can switch to your back in a moment's notice since it's hanging right under your chin.



Donating a regulator that is NOT a known quantity might make a bad situation worse.

As for my attitude, its spot on.. IMO I am way more important than you. I always will be. My first thought if someone is OOA isnt compassionate... I really dont care if that upsets you.. My first thought is this person needs to quit diving. I am 100% certain given a crisis situation, those that understand the value of their own lives are the ones that will come out ahead. My wife and kids are the benefactors of my thinking.

Some people dont need to have compassion.. and trust me, I wont be going for YOUR air.. I only dive with my wife and dont ever see that changing.. I also know enough to have earned my AOW from NAUI and I dont freak out in the deep dark abyss..


I dont think I could ever go with these long hose configs. I like the whole minimalistic approach.




Thanks for the answers people.. The wife and I were starting to wonder about people giving out their primaries..

Thats mine.. The wife has a TUSA unit..


I will say that we are keeping our current config with the shorter hose primary and the octo on a tad longer but not crazy long hose... We are changing all our hoses to Miflex.. Amazing hoses..

Sorry for seeming to make it out as a NAUI vs PADI thing.. Is just an insticnt when something doesnt make much sense to me.. "Blame PADI" haha

If resorts taught people better I am sure I wouldnt feel the way I do.. but in short diving period of 60 logged dives I have already seen a few messups.. from OOA, to someone getting bent.. all PADI divers.. Even have seen "advanced" divers go OOA, and get on the wrong boat at the Spiegel Grove. Again, some people dont need to be diving.. You dont do a deep dive and not watch your air or bottom time.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I only dive with my wife and dont ever see that changing.

I feel bad for your wife.

Perhaps in time, you will realize that with 60 dives, you have much to learn, although you might feel like you know everything. Perhaps it's time to stop pontificating and start listening to people with more experience.

 

[BabyDuck]

so your wife has a massive failure and comes for your reg and you're gonna cut her? i'd think about that some more.

the bottom line is that you can donate however you want to as long as you go over it with your buddy beforehand and practice often. but so can i, and if i prefer to use a long hose, then as long as my buddies know and i practice often, yay for me and no harm to you.

nothing wrong with asking questions, but don't shut your mind to the answers before you get them.

 

[ianr33]

Part of my training was how to maintain the control of my main reg..
And to understand that my knife was a tool used to keep people from stealing my reg...

Guess we wont ever be diving together............................

My first thought if someone is OOA isnt compassionate... I really dont care if that upsets you.. My first thought is this person needs to quit diving.

So if I ever have a burst disk/O-ring/LP hose fail on me I need to quit diving??? You're not making much sense here.

 

[psychocabbage]

I feel bad for your wife.

Perhaps in time, you will realize that with 60 dives, you have much to learn, although you might feel like you know everything. Perhaps it's time to stop pontificating and start listening to people with more experience.

No.. Because experience doesnt make you better. .being smarter would give you a chance tho..


Some people choose to dive wrecks, other caves... I personally know that all of my dives will be warm water non enclosed recreational dives. The odds of my gear failing are pretty remote. The odds of both my wife and I having an equipment malfunction at depth are even more remote. So what part of your thinking makes any sense?
My wife and I dive.. As do my 3 daughters.. I dont ever see myself pairing up with a variable. Its just not safe.

I dont like people working on my car or bike. I turn my own wrenches because I know my skill level and have not met many people I would feel safe trusting their wrenching skills. The same goes with my diving.. and anything else I do..

Everyone has their own comfort level.. I for one know what I am doing and what I am expecting of my equipment. .Therefore I know I need to ensure its upkeep.

 

[psychocabbage]

so your wife has a massive failure and comes for your reg and you're gonna cut her? i'd think about that some more.

the bottom line is that you can donate however you want to as long as you go over it with your buddy beforehand and practice often. but so can i, and if i prefer to use a long hose, then as long as my buddies know and i practice often, yay for me and no harm to you.

nothing wrong with asking questions, but don't shut your mind to the answers before you get them.

HAHHAHA
Actually, the wife knows where my octo is and since I know where she is 98% of the time, I seriously doubt there would be any issue..

And we have both been NAUI AOW trained.. so.. buddy breathing and sharing and even going blind are all covered.. we dont panic.. ever.. we have already talked about what to do if everything fails and that no matter what, 1 of us survives for the kids. Have you had that talk with your partner (if its your mate)?? We take it all very seriously but we have a ton of fun doing it. If we are to die, so be it.. but we will try and ensure that 1 of us always survives.

By the way, my wife has amazing sac rate and is going to be an instructor. I dont really have any issues with her skill level. I have seen her dive without any gear to a 20ft platform and sit there watching divers decend.. then go up. Not many people do that.. Pretty sure she could hit 30-40 ft easy. Guess thats the benefits of being an ex swimmer and platform diver..

 

[amascuba]

Odds of anyone overpowering me in any situation are highly unlikely... Now on to the OOA scenario.. Part of my training was how to maintain the control of my main reg..
And to understand that my knife was a tool used to keep people from stealing my reg...

I call bull****. No way in hell that an instructor taught you to use your knife on somebody to keep them from stealing your primary regulator.

 

[Tigerman]

"We dont panic, EVER" - Famous last words..

Theres something about never saying never and some guy called Murphy