Out of Air on Descent

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Sorry, I might have used some lingo that wasn't clear. I would still call that a "bungied backup", but that is just kind of slang. A bungied backup is just a necklace made of bungie cord that does the same thing as the silocone one you linked to. Some of us are just a little cheap/frugal, and making it by hand allows you to customize the sizing.

Here is a pic I googled of a true "bungie" necklace.

bungied backup.jpg
 
LoonDiver,
........Thanks for sharing your recent experience.... It is a good reminder for all of us..... BTW, I have also experienced this particular problem....

Cheers,
Roger
 
It's interesting, the way you guys are setting up your gear. Most of us who hang the backup reg around our necks are intending to use it ourselves, and donate the regulator we are breathing. But the Manta necklaces don't hang onto the reg very hard, so I suppose one could use them as an octo-holder.

You did a lot of things right, including breathing from the reg while watching the gauge before the dive (an excellent practice). But as I have learned any number of times, if you have to take gear off or apart to fix a problem, you have to approach the gear check all over again. It's a good lesson to remember, and thank you for telling a story that illustrates it so well.

Otherwise, I think your solutions were fine. A major malfunction on descent should be dealt with, in most cases, by a return to the surface. I learned that lesson vividly -- I did a dive with a new instructor, who threw a failure at me and my buddy when we were just underwater. We spent the next eight minutes gracefully dancing through the whole set of procedures to cope with the failure, and I was congratulating myself on how well we had done as we ascended. As my head broke the surface, the instructor growled, "What the *&#@ were you thinking!" I blinked at him, baffled, and he went on, "If you had an inflator runaway in five feet of water at the beginning of the dive, would you really spend EIGHT MINUTES underwater trying to fix it?" Lesson learned -- failures at the beginning, near the surface, are best dealt with ON the surface.

We can argue about whether you should have dumped his weights -- I wouldn't have; I would have done just what you did. Once you are on the surface, he can orally inflate his BC to stay there. Only if he were too panicked to do that, would I have dropped weight. After all, the failure you had was not actually going to preclude you going on to dive, if he wasn't too rattled, but dropping his weight would.

And to tell another story on myself, I dropped underwater once on a stage bottle I hadn't turned on. I got about four feet down and "ran out of gas". Even though running out of gas wasn't even a remote possibility, because in addition to the bottle I was breathing, I had 150 cubic feet of gas on my back, I still had a moment of sheer adrenaline and the thought, "I need to get out of here" and I started swimming upward just as my brain engaged and I realized I just had to turn a valve on. So even somebody with years and hundred of dives can be rather seriously rattled by suddenly finding herself out of gas -- I think you guys handled it just fine!
 
A couple of things occur to me than no one has touched on. You need to reevaluate your decent procedures and weighting. If you dump all the air out of your BC and start to descend quickly, you are overweighed and likely by a fair amount. If you have more than a small amount of air remaining in your BC at the surface when you start a dive, you are overweighed. Too many divers think the decent should start instantly and be fast, if it is, you are overweighed. Properly weighted, after you completely deflate your BC and breath out, it should take a few seconds before you start a slow but increasing decent, if it's instantaneous and fast, you are overweighed. This is especially true of the first dive since there are pockets of trapped air on and around your exposure suit that add a fair amount of extra buoyancy at the start of a dive. The next issue I see and it's overweight and over speed related as well is why you could not just swim your rig back up. Properly weighted and your BC properly used, you should never be more than a pound or 2 negative at any given point during the decent, it is a "controlled" decent after all. In fact, you should actually never be negative or positive during any accent or decent but rather always neutral, controlling your accent/decent with your breath and adjusting the BC accordingly as you change depth so you neutral. If you are properly weighted and using your BC for proper buoyancy (at the absolute most a couple of pounds negative at any given point) its very easy to swim your gear back up with little effort. In your case, had both of you been neutral, one of you could have very easily returned both of you to the surface while sharing air using breath control alone. There are times when exceptions need to be made, like tech diving where loads of gas need to be compensated for or where dive site requirements make a fast decent necessary but in general, descents and accents should be slow and graceful, as should all movement in diving.
 
I have to say that I am quite pleased with the way you handled this. Having had you both in class and putting you through some of the stuff I did and seeing the way you responded to that was why I had no problems issuing you your aow cards. I would say that you have been keeping up with many of those lessons and putting them to use. I really love it when students of mine see the value of the buddy system and why I am so radical about being in proper position. Then they take that and actually use it. Good on you.

A few minor things could have been done.differently but that comes with experience and having dealt with a real life issue. There are some things you'll do differently now. But you know what they are and I am confident you'll address them. We will be at gilboa the 17th, 18th, & 19th of this month. Would love to see you again if you want to look at some of those things.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
 
The story has a happy ending, so the handling of the emergency was certainly good enough if not ideal. Gold star for buddy proximity. Heaviest criticism to hubby for not having his air on. Prevention beats rescue every time. Final check before descent- even after buddy check, would have prevented this. Remember the PADI "5 point descent?" Add to it 2 breaths from regulator while monitoring the pressure gauge, and you will never descend without your air being on. Thanks for sharing this excellent thread. Learn from every dive.
DivemasterDennis
 
Completely ignoring entendres here, I don't think that's reasonable.

His equipment is vital to your safety. You aren't (just) checking for his benefit. If the best check involves touching, you touch.

Or maybe I'm violating some diver code that wasn't explained in my OW class. Either way I wouldn't hesitate to touch a buddy's gear as park of the pre-dive check, whether I had just met them or was married to them.

I'm trying to figure this one out also....OP, what's his reason for the 'no-touchy' rule??
 
Sooner or later, most divers experience a 'wake up call' as to the necessity for applying the BASIC Open Water skills and drills. Those experiences tend to ground us about our 'real' capabilities - it's all too easy to make an assumption about our reactions during a hypothetical incident, but reality tends to prove otherwise. We learn from them - and they make us better divers.

It was a humbling experience and one we are still talking about and learning from. Thank you for your thoughtful response.
 
I am religious about buddy checks, but I don't want anyone touching my gear. By the time I have it set up, I have it the way I want it, and the only time I want someone to touch it is if there is something out of order that I can't fix by myself.
 
It's interesting, the way you guys are setting up your gear. Most of us who hang the backup reg around our necks are intending to use it ourselves, and donate the regulator we are breathing. But the Manta necklaces don't hang onto the reg very hard, so I suppose one could use them as an octo-holder.

I think we got that idea from the local dive shop. It works very well for us. The backup reg is very easy to locate and releases easily from the necklace. Our training has been to donate our backup reg and we're both comfortable with it. We breathe from both regulators to check them so no concern that the backup reg won't function. Thank you for your very helpful post.

---------- Post Merged at 05:48 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:45 PM ----------

I'm trying to figure this one out also....OP, what's his reason for the 'no-touchy' rule??

I don't think it's unusual not to want someone else to touch your gear -- I've seen other divers on SB say the same thing. He feels like he has it the way he wants it and doesn't want me accidentally changing something.

---------- Post Merged at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:45 PM ----------

I have to say that I am quite pleased with the way you handled this. Having had you both in class and putting you through some of the stuff I did and seeing the way you responded to that was why I had no problems issuing you your aow cards. I would say that you have been keeping up with many of those lessons and putting them to use. I really love it when students of mine see the value of the buddy system and why I am so radical about being in proper position. Then they take that and actually use it. Good on you.

A few minor things could have been done.differently but that comes with experience and having dealt with a real life issue. There are some things you'll do differently now. But you know what they are and I am confident you'll address them. We will be at gilboa the 17th, 18th, & 19th of this month. Would love to see you again if you want to look at some of those things.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Thanks, Jim. I don't know if we can make Gilboa that weekend because Rob works weekends, but we'd love to see you again and also discuss future training (Rescue Diver :D ). Maybe we can make it to Gilboa then - I'll PM you.
 
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