PADI Certification too quick?

[fmw625]

I just finished my PADI OW Cert. the last weekend in June. We started out 2 nights a week. One for class work and one for pool work. Each about 3 hrs. After the first week, we went to the pool 2 or 3 times a week for 3hrs. depending on your own schedule. We had a primary instructor and 3 or 4 assistant instructors for each pool session. Our class only had 8 students, so we has plenty of personal instruction. The class was scheduled for 4 weeks. After that we went to the lake and did our OW dives over 2 days.

As far as hovering was concerned, I never realized that I had performed this skill. Then I remembered, On the metal platforn that the LDS had put in the lake we were to scratch our name in the platform while HOVERING above the platform. Kind of a neat way to get you to perform that skill.

 

[Mobius1]

I had a great instructor who wouldnot let us get by with just doing the requirements once but we had to do them over and over constantly.
The ocean dives jeese he would order his DM's to randomly shut off peoples air when they were with their buddies
ripping our masks off
ect
he was a good safe instructor he could constantly stress the importance of boyauncy control ect.

 

[String]

I said in a different thread that my location limits me to dive in this quarry and it is easy to get deeper than planned! I think some of your replies are very rude!

This comment says it all, easier to get deeper than planned ? This is practically an admission that your buoyancy control is not good enough to maintain a constant depth and your observation is lacking in allowing you to descend deeper than planned. Its also an indication of no dive planning what so ever.
If you cant maintain a constant depth in the water you shouldnt be allowed in the water without supervision.

FWIW i think this is a troll.

 

[DORSETBOY]

Good point String, quarries can be absolutely lethal and are not the easy option some think - the example that springs to mind being Dorothea (north wales) where every year several divers die. this quarry in particular is extremely deep and very cold, go deeper than intended and you can get into trouble very fast. Also, if your bouyancy is poor you are likely to have a saw tooth dive profile, a quick and easy way to get yourself bent.

 

[String]

Going deeper than intended is a good way to get killed or bent whether its a quarry or not - its bad practice and the sign of poor training and skills, particulary if it happens often.

Dorothea isnt really as bad as made out if you look at the stats. Its very cold and deep as a result gets used by technical divers for work up deep dives - these type of dives have far more inherent risks than normal diving so as a result you tend to see more incidents.
You get hundreds of normal dives there per year without incident but of course this doesnt make the news.
Of course, moronic stupidity like the one last year doing 60m on a single 15l tank etc will get you killed and does. This last group i class the poster in this thread (or would if i didnt think it was just a deliberate troll).

 

[Lead_carrier]

Sadly enough, this is done all the frickin time. And then those future split-fin, poodle-jacketed, air2 and ankle-weight wearing rototillers go out and start their DM training while wondering how to put 30 pounds of lead in their BC...They dive using their air-integrated computer to plan dives, and wouldn't know a dive plan if they fell over one.


... Then they become instructors after 16 ocean dives and 84 quarry dives, with an average depth of 39 feet. And the cycle begins anew.

It's enough to bring a tear to your eye.

Gee, do I detect some bitternesse here?

 

[dweeb]

My wife enrolled in the PADI O/W class two weeks ago. On her first day they went thru the "Book". (In five hours) On her second day they went to the pool and spent an hour or so going thru the equipment set up. They then spent 5 or 6 hours in the pool. This coming weekend they are going to the lake and going to do the checkout dives. In my humble opinion this is a little fast. I got my cert in 86 and it sure seems to me like we had several classes, several pool dives and I do remember that it wasnt the second week that we went to the lake. Maybe I am blowing this out of proportion, maybe not. Do you think this is enough time to grasp the skills that are necessary to be a safe diver? I'm just having a really hard time accepting this. Any input?

What you describe is actually not the short course anymore.
PADI encourages those with confined and open water venues in close proximity to do the entire cert in one weekend.

As you may have noticed, you have stumbled into one of the top three controversies in diving today. Enjoy. One helpful hint: whenever anyone defends this practice, ask them if they have a vested interest in higher certification rates. This conflict typically breaks down along those lines - PADI's instant gratification paradigm is supported by two groups - those who make money off it, and those who wouldn't be able to dive without it (who probably shouldn't be diving anyway.)

 

[Xanthro]

whenever anyone defends this practice, ask them if they have a vested interest in higher certification rates. This conflict typically breaks down along those lines - PADI's instant gratification paradigm is supported by two groups - those who make money off it, and those who wouldn't be able to dive without it (who probably shouldn't be diving anyway.)

I couldn't disagree more. Plenty of reasons for supporting faster and easier certification exist, other than financial gain and incompetence.

More divers, even if they do not stay with the sport, enhance diving for the following reasons.

1) More divers means more people purchasing equipment, which drives down equipment prices, which means divers can afford to buy BETTER and safer equipment.
2) More divers mean more people are familiar with the sport, and are thus more likely to support pro-diving positions when it comes to laws and regulations.
3) More divers mean more support for dives in various locations, which means greater variety of safer diving locations.
4) More divers mean the general public is more likely to know a diver, which helps the image of diving.
5) Recreational divers, even new inexperience divers, help with diving’s general image, so divers are not seen as wannbe SEALS, or worse underwater militiamen.
6) Recreational divers, even new inexperience divers, help introduce the general public to the wonders of underwater life, and hence the public is more willing to support legislation protecting the underwater environment, without harming diving.

It seems that the basic argument for more stringent training is that many experience divers either;

A) Resent that they had to go through tougher training.
B) Resent newer divers less proficient divers being around.

The simple fact is, there are not that many accidents involving new divers. As long as the new diver stays within his or her limits, there is little problem.

Sure, watching someone without decent buoyancy control isn’t pretty, but it’s not life threatening to you either. A bit more sediment gets kicked up, it’s not the end of the World.

The pros of more divers certainly outweigh the cons.

Xanthro

 

[MikeFerrara]

I couldn't disagree more. Plenty of reasons for supporting faster and easier certification exist, other than financial gain and incompetence.

More divers, even if they do not stay with the sport, enhance diving for the following reasons.

1) More divers means more people purchasing equipment, which drives down equipment prices, which means divers can afford to buy BETTER and safer equipment.

Most of the equipment on the market is pretty colored junk designed to appeal to a vacation divers sense of fassion. and...it's expensive to boot. Training...now...that's cheap.

2) More divers mean more people are familiar with the sport, and are thus more likely to support pro-diving positions when it comes to laws and regulations.

Or the accidents they have may just lead to restrictive legislation like is being introduced in Canada and other places.

It seems that the basic argument for more stringent training is that many experience divers either;

A) Resent that they had to go through tougher training.
B) Resent newer divers less proficient divers being around.

I haven't seen that and in fact most of the divers I know are happy to work with new divers.

The simple fact is, there are not that many accidents involving new divers. As long as the new diver stays within his or her limits, there is little problem.

No, the simple fact is that most accidents that aren't cause by medical problems involve divers with little training, little recent experience and poor basic skills (reference the DAN accident report)

While the fatalitles reported to DAN may be fairly few after watching this stuff for a while I am of the opinion that almost all (non-medeical problems) accidents are easily avoidable. We just choose not to because we don't mind loosing 100 per year. I'd go one step further and say that after seeing the same causes of accidents over and over and seeing how it relates directly to the way diving is taught it's almost started to look like murder to me.

Sure, watching someone without decent buoyancy control isn’t pretty, but it’s not life threatening to you either.

Not true. I have had to pull a few divers out of the drink and was myself exposed to a dangerous situation in almost every case.

A bit more sediment gets kicked up, it’s not the end of the World.

No it's not the end of the world but it certainly renders some local sites not worth diving anymore and it certainly does damage to the environment also.

The pros of more divers certainly outweigh the cons.

Now here's the problem. For some reason you're assuming that more effective training would automatically result in less divers. Better training can actually make learning to dive easier rather than harder. It goes back to the old saying "work smarter not harder". It's more than possible to turn out new divers that don't wallow around on the bottom from a reasonable length class and it's not all that hard either.

 

[getwet2]

A bit more sediment gets kicked up, it’s not the end of the World.

I have to disagree with you on this one point, kicking up a big cloud behind you does damage some corals.